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Old October 12, 2015   #16
Ricky Shaw
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Hybrids are getting better all the time, taste included. The Dutch must have an especially good program, their varieties are always some of the highest priced.
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Old October 13, 2015   #17
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I looked a bit into Rebelski, it's made by the dutch at De Ruiter, and looking at seed prices in the east Europe, it's indeed expensive, around 40 cents per seed in bulk which is a lot, compared to for example Big Beef which is under 10 cents.
The shape is the attraction, you can get away selling higher, but there are now quite a few similar F1 shaped tomatoes that are not as expensive.
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Old October 13, 2015   #18
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I bought "black velvet" from seedway last year. I had to buy 100 seeds in order to try it... What an awful tomato. It is rather disappointing to spend money on seeds that aren't what you are looking for. But if anybody wants these I'll be happy to send a few. The shipping is what gets me... not the cost of the seeds.
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Old October 13, 2015   #19
Ricky Shaw
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The hybrid Dutch stuff is hungrier for nitrogen than typical heirlooms, so I ruled them out as being too much of a PITA. I suspect my hands will be full enough trying to bring some type of stable fertigation system on line.

However, it did get me to thinking about the requirements in general of hybrids versus heirlooms. If these Dutch super-modified, high production tomato engines require more nitrogen, would hybrids in general benefit?
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Old October 13, 2015   #20
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My Mountain Magic F1 (from Territorrial, source Netherlands) has been a tomato machine for the last 5+ months, my sole exposure to hybrids. Mt. Magic is not on the pricey end of the spectrum. It takes fertigation like a champ and asks for more--new flowers appear practically overnight.

My conditions are tomato-friendly for many months, so I'm sure Rebelski will pump out many good ones too. I suspect they'll be pretty far from the fodder mentioned above. Speaking of which, yesterday I switched out the fodder slices on my In-n-Out double-double animal style for slices of Orange Minsk Heart and German Johnson. I tried to pace myself, but it went fast.
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Old October 13, 2015   #21
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I really like Orange Blossom F1 from Johnny's. I still haven't found an orange tomato that does better in the high tunnel. I still have some seeds from their orange det BHN-871. I didn't save a plant to grow one this year. I need to do so next year just to try it. They have a new orange BHN tomato that is supposed to be improved, but I always wonder about flavor every time a variety is "improved."

Terrenzo is the only other hybrid I miss. It's a red oblong cherry that grows in a bush, determinate, prolific flowering and fruit set, and good sweet taste and texture, which is rare in compact hybrids.
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Old October 20, 2015   #22
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Woohoo! I'm gonna wait on these until March-April. Excited to see how they do throughout my long season. And then maybe, just maybe, I can formulate a valid opinion on expensive hybrids.

rebelski.jpg
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Old October 23, 2015   #23
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Ah, but if you're a bona fide commercial grower breeders like De Ruiter will send you samples.

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Old October 23, 2015   #24
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Johnny's was one of the first seed companies I ordered from. Very good quality seed. Sadly, I do
not order from them no more. Way too expensive and high shipping cost.
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Old October 23, 2015   #25
Ricky Shaw
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I've wondered if hybrid seed is all fairly standard. Is Big Beef seed the same from Burpee and Johnny's as it is from discounter's Ferry-Morse and Lake Seed?
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Old October 23, 2015   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw View Post
I've wondered if hybrid seed is all fairly standard. Is Big Beef seed the same from Burpee and Johnny's as it is from discounter's Ferry-Morse and Lake Seed?
Most of the time it is, because they buy their seeds from someone else and repackage them in smaller amounts.
I cant answer for every type though.

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Old October 23, 2015   #27
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Makes sense the smaller outfits can still offer a good product for less by cutting overhead. Just wondered, can't say I've noticed a difference.

Been using the Lake Valley seeds for years, mainly because they're local and it was on racks here everywhere for dirt cheap. Seeds don't seem to be out as much in stores anymore.
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Old October 23, 2015   #28
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Back before the stuff going on in the middle east I used to buy gun powder in huge amounts.
The price went for over $20 a pound to around $4.00 a pound.
This allowed me to clear around $15.00 for a box of custom hand loads.

I was looking at bulk pepper seeds the other day, It is amazing what the mark up is.
I have actually considered it.

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Old December 3, 2015   #29
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Hybrid / expensive seed. I use around a dozen seed sources, spend around $3000 on planting stock, maybe a $1000 of that on seeds a year. Use about a dozen small companies, Jonny's and High Mowing the most "straight laced..lol..

Anyway, it depends on the grower. Most of the time I find little advantage to the expensive seed. My " style" is to plant more OP seed, save seed, seek varieties that perform in my environment. (So most of my seed comes from regional growers, dispite the seed houses location.)

But hybrid seed can pay big dividends in the right situation. IMHO.. If you think it is expensive, then it is probably not right for you. Growers harnessing the advantage of a particular hybrid find the investment miniscule compared to the return.
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Old December 3, 2015   #30
Fred Hempel
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Gerardo,

Mountain Magic is not from the Netherlands. In fact, I see nothing on the Territorial website claiming that it is. Perhaps you concluded that because they describe it as "Campari-type".

It is a variety of Randy Gardners.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo View Post
My Mountain Magic F1 (from Territorrial, source Netherlands) has been a tomato machine for the last 5+ months, my sole exposure to hybrids. Mt. Magic is not on the pricey end of the spectrum. It takes fertigation like a champ and asks for more--new flowers appear practically overnight.

My conditions are tomato-friendly for many months, so I'm sure Rebelski will pump out many good ones too. I suspect they'll be pretty far from the fodder mentioned above. Speaking of which, yesterday I switched out the fodder slices on my In-n-Out double-double animal style for slices of Orange Minsk Heart and German Johnson. I tried to pace myself, but it went fast.
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