My Crosses (F1s)

Glenn 50 · January 28, 2006

Did a few crosses in 2002 season and then never got around to sowing the resulting F1s until this season..

Lutescents x Purple Calabash.
Heavy crops of 3" red fruit with some mild ribbing. No colour changes when ripening. Just green thru to red like other toms.

Black Brandywine x Russian Red.
Unfortunately no rugose foliage. Large 4.5" red fruit. Beautiful.

Buckbee New 50 day x Verna Orange.
Heavy crops of red 3" perfectly round fruit. Fairly solid interior. Will grow the descendants of this next season.

Tiny Tim x Yellow Stuffer.
Semi rugose foliage. Sprays of lovely minature 1" red stuffers. Hollow inside.
Don't ask me about the dwarf gene...this grew 8ft high and is still going.

Hobbit.
This is an F2 rugose cross between Tiny Tim and Zapotec. Small Zapotec shaped fruit. 50% dwarf and 50% semi indeterminate. Maybe it will stabilize in future generations maybe not.

There are others that I'm playing with but this ain't a book!

Grub · January 29, 2006

Hi Fellow Tomatovillians

Sounds good Glenn,

Korney (Mark), whom you might know, sent me Akers West Virginia x Kelloggs Breakfast. Yum. My one plant is doing exceptionally well and producing plenty of beefs. Can't wait to see how they colour up. I think it's an F4.

Hopefully, I get lots of seed to share for my Mystery PL Green. Have some good seed saves.

**coronabarb** · January 29, 2006

The AWV x KB sounds like it could be very interesting. I'm looking forward to your report.

Suze · January 29, 2006

coronabarb says:
The AWV x KB sounds like it could be very interesting.

I was thinking the same thing, Barb. AWV is one of my favorites, but I thought KB was just a touch on the bland side the one time I grew it - pretty good but not great (probably need to try again as it was a rainy year).

Keep us posted, Grubby.

Suze · January 29, 2006

Glenn says:
Black Brandywine x Russian Red.
Unfortunately no rugose foliage. Large 4.5" red fruit. Beautiful.

Oh? How many did you grow out? Would think you'd see at least a few, but then I don't know much about tomato genetics.

I really enjoy Russian Red, btw. Think it's a great container plant.

Glenn 50 · January 29, 2006

Yes your right KC. All the F1s are indentical. Just realised my "Hobbit" is an F3 after I did some figuring. Better keep better book keeping.

travis · January 29, 2006

I'd be interested in how different folks choose the parents for a cross.

Once, Keith said something about how he liked to cross two parents with very diverse characteristics and see what segregated out. But I also think he said that sometimes results in some unpleasant taste profiles.

Then again, I see Keith also has worked with the Brandywine x Cherokee Purple cross and grow-outs, so that doesn't seem so far-out (except Blondokee must've been a surprise).

Anyway, could some of you give your reasoning behind your parent line choices for crosses, and tell us something about what happened in the F1 and subsequently, and how it compares to what you expected, etc.?

PV

Glenn 50 · January 29, 2006

When I got around to deciding to cross some tomatoes in 2002/03 season it was getting on towards the end of Autumn/fall so I just picked any that had pollen and some viable (female) flowers.
I would like to do some more Tiny Tim crosses but have to figure out if the dwarf gene is reccesive or not.
Genetics stumps me.Perhaps I need Deppes book. Something simple anyway.

**mdvpc** · January 29, 2006

Glenn-I am waiting for you to get Hobbit ready for distribution, any idea when you might be sharing seed?

Glenn 50 · January 29, 2006

Another generation or 2 yet I think. If I keep saving seeds off the dwarfs I must get there eventually.
Glenn

Mantis · January 30, 2006

Interesting thread. I crossed Tommy Toe and Nepal last year and grew the F1's this year. Got tomatoes that looked like and were the size of Russian Reds and they are prolific. I crossed Brandywine with College Challenger this year and have just sprouted some F1's for a fall crop. Wont know if the cross was successful until I get ripe fruit as CC was the mother plant.

KC - I grew out a regular leaf seedling this year that came from some Marianas Peace seeds and it produced small roma sized hollow red fruit. Dont know if it is a cross, mutation or mixed seed but you are welcome to some seeds from them if you like.

Mantis

Raymondo · January 30, 2006

As far as I know, the dwarf characteristic is recessive in tomatoes, as it is in peas and beans. F1s from a cross with a non-dwarf won't be dwarf. F2s should show segregation, provided you grow enough to actually see it.
Did a few crosses this year with Jaune Flammée as mother. The only one that took was the cross with Paragon, and the fruit is pretty small, even for JF. I'll try again next year because I actually want to cross JF with Aunt Gertie's Gold.
It's all fun!

peispud · January 30, 2006

The Tiny Tim x Yellow Stuffer and the Hobbit sound very interesting and let us know how they do this season. You need anyone to grow F3 plants in the NH?
Yesterday I browsed on the net and found links related to doing crosses with tomatoes and read for awhile about it. There are some I would love to try to do.
How would someone create a potato leaf version of a variety or even create a variety with foilage like silvery fir tree?
Silvery fir tree x earl of edgecombe or
silvery fir tree x limmony are two I'd like to try.

Peter

travis · January 30, 2006

"As far as I know, the dwarf characteristic is recessive in tomatoes, as it is in peas and beans. F1s from a cross with a non-dwarf won't be dwarf. F2s should show segregation, provided you grow enough to actually see it." [Raymondo]

Raymondo,

Would a cross between a dwarf and a determinate stand a better chance of generating a dwarf in segregation from a smaller crop sample than likewise with an indeterminate?

Is tree-type also recessive same as dwarf, or less so, or more so?

Is rugose leaf dominant over potato leaf? Is there any such thing as potato leaf shape with rugose characteristic rather than the more serrated leaf edge rugose?

I guess where this is headed, is anyone working on a dwarf tree type with rugose potato leaf and a larger fruit, or does a good one already exist?

PV

travis · January 30, 2006

Keith,

You say you will be "sticking with taste improvements/modifications because even the professionals don't know exactly what is going on there."

I assume that is what you were doing with Brandywine x Cherokee? Did that pan out regarding taste?

You also say, "anyone developing good lines in this regard, for now, will be a matter of serendipity."

Is that because you lose some of the taste quality in F1s even from parents with good taste profiles? I think I saw that indicated in conversations elsewhere.

So, have you or others had any taste hits yet in F1?

If so, did the taste profile maintain in subsequent grow-outs?

PV

January 28, 2006	#1
Glenn 50 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 224	My Crosses (F1s) Did a few crosses in 2002 season and then never got around to sowing the resulting F1s until this season.. Lutescents x Purple Calabash. Heavy crops of 3" red fruit with some mild ribbing. No colour changes when ripening. Just green thru to red like other toms. Black Brandywine x Russian Red. Unfortunately no rugose foliage. Large 4.5" red fruit. Beautiful. Buckbee New 50 day x Verna Orange. Heavy crops of red 3" perfectly round fruit. Fairly solid interior. Will grow the descendants of this next season. Tiny Tim x Yellow Stuffer. Semi rugose foliage. Sprays of lovely minature 1" red stuffers. Hollow inside. Don't ask me about the dwarf gene...this grew 8ft high and is still going. Hobbit. This is an F2 rugose cross between Tiny Tim and Zapotec. Small Zapotec shaped fruit. 50% dwarf and 50% semi indeterminate. Maybe it will stabilize in future generations maybe not. There are others that I'm playing with but this ain't a book!

January 29, 2006	#2
Grub Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,722	Sounds Great Hi Fellow Tomatovillians Sounds good Glenn, Korney (Mark), whom you might know, sent me Akers West Virginia x Kelloggs Breakfast. Yum. My one plant is doing exceptionally well and producing plenty of beefs. Can't wait to see how they colour up. I think it's an F4. Hopefully, I get lots of seed to share for my Mystery PL Green. Have some good seed saves.

January 29, 2006	#9
mdvpc Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 4,386	Glenn's crosses Glenn-I am waiting for you to get Hobbit ready for distribution, any idea when you might be sharing seed? __________________ Michael

January 30, 2006	#12
Raymondo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Saumarez Ponds, NSW, Australia Posts: 946	Recessives As far as I know, the dwarf characteristic is recessive in tomatoes, as it is in peas and beans. F1s from a cross with a non-dwarf won't be dwarf. F2s should show segregation, provided you grow enough to actually see it. Did a few crosses this year with Jaune Flammée as mother. The only one that took was the cross with Paragon, and the fruit is pretty small, even for JF. I'll try again next year because I actually want to cross JF with Aunt Gertie's Gold. It's all fun! __________________ Ray

January 29, 2006	#3
coronabarb Tomatoville® Recipe Keeper Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Roseburg, Oregon - zone 7 Posts: 2,821	The AWV x KB sounds like it could be very interesting. I'm looking forward to your report.

January 29, 2006	#4
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	coronabarb says: The AWV x KB sounds like it could be very interesting. I was thinking the same thing, Barb. AWV is one of my favorites, but I thought KB was just a touch on the bland side the one time I grew it - pretty good but not great (probably need to try again as it was a rainy year). Keep us posted, Grubby.

January 29, 2006	#7
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	I'd be interested in how different folks choose the parents for a cross. Once, Keith said something about how he liked to cross two parents with very diverse characteristics and see what segregated out. But I also think he said that sometimes results in some unpleasant taste profiles. Then again, I see Keith also has worked with the Brandywine x Cherokee Purple cross and grow-outs, so that doesn't seem so far-out (except Blondokee must've been a surprise). Anyway, could some of you give your reasoning behind your parent line choices for crosses, and tell us something about what happened in the F1 and subsequently, and how it compares to what you expected, etc.? PV

January 30, 2006	#11
Mantis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Oz Posts: 1,241	Interesting thread. I crossed Tommy Toe and Nepal last year and grew the F1's this year. Got tomatoes that looked like and were the size of Russian Reds and they are prolific. I crossed Brandywine with College Challenger this year and have just sprouted some F1's for a fall crop. Wont know if the cross was successful until I get ripe fruit as CC was the mother plant. KC - I grew out a regular leaf seedling this year that came from some Marianas Peace seeds and it produced small roma sized hollow red fruit. Dont know if it is a cross, mutation or mixed seed but you are welcome to some seeds from them if you like. Mantis

January 30, 2006	#13
peispud Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 180	The Tiny Tim x Yellow Stuffer and the Hobbit sound very interesting and let us know how they do this season. You need anyone to grow F3 plants in the NH? Yesterday I browsed on the net and found links related to doing crosses with tomatoes and read for awhile about it. There are some I would love to try to do. How would someone create a potato leaf version of a variety or even create a variety with foilage like silvery fir tree? Silvery fir tree x earl of edgecombe or silvery fir tree x limmony are two I'd like to try. Peter