Seed starting question regarding germination

[Katmary]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to growing tomatoes from seed and while I've devoured the messages for types of tomatoes, how to make ETs, etc this last year, I've been a bit shy about posting.

I have a question about germination- I received all my tomato seeds last week, and only have room for 1-2 plants per type in my yard. I'm growing them with lights, heating pad, Jiffy seed starting mix, and 72 hole trays. My question is how many seeds should I plant to insure I get 1 plant? Since they're all new seeds, I'm hoping it'll be pretty high so I can use them in the next couple years, but is there a formula any of you use?

I'm also growing extras for my Dad, and know enough neighbors to pass some out to, just would like to use the minimum seeds to insure a plant. I was thinking 3, but since I'm a beginner, perhaps 5 seeds? I've mainly grown herbs from seed, so I figured it was best to ask all you pros!

Thank you!
Kathy

[mensplace]

There are many factors that impact germenation, but, assuming that your seeds came from a reputable source and that you use a good seed starting mix (whether purchased or made of your own mix), keep the soil moist, provide light, and don't plant too deeply, the seed should germinate with no problem. Some take a bit longer than others, but most should germinate.

Originally Posted by Katmary

Hi everyone,

I'm new to growing tomatoes from seed and while I've devoured the messages for types of tomatoes, how to make ETs, etc this last year, I've been a bit shy about posting.

I have a question about germination- I received all my tomato seeds last week, and only have room for 1-2 plants per type in my yard. I'm growing them with lights, heating pad, Jiffy seed starting mix, and 72 hole trays. My question is how many seeds should I plant to insure I get 1 plant? Since they're all new seeds, I'm hoping it'll be pretty high so I can use them in the next couple years, but is there a formula any of you use?

I'm also growing extras for my Dad, and know enough neighbors to pass some out to, just would like to use the minimum seeds to insure a plant. I was thinking 3, but since I'm a beginner, perhaps 5 seeds? I've mainly grown herbs from seed, so I figured it was best to ask all you pros!

Thank you!
Kathy

[Barryblushes]

If you presoak your seeds,then do the paper towel thing,you will use less seeds.You wont need multiple seeds in each cell if they sprout in the paper towel. Good luck to you.Dont be shy now,we dont bite Barry

[nctomatoman]

And if you check out the videos or dense planting thread, you will see that I neither presoak or presprout. With fresh seeds (and as long as they are stored dry, fresh can be 5 to 10 years after production or saving), germination of tomato seed should be 90-95% - so if you plant 2 seeds, you should get 2 plants 90% of the time.

with no presoak or presprout, I still get germination in 4 to 5 days.

[brog]

If you are planting for Pop and neighdors plant 2 cells more than you think you will need, one seed per cell.you will have more than enough. store left over seed at less than 60 degrees in DRY place. Bill

[nctomatoman]

Bill, I've had my tomato seeds in my office - temp varies as the house does (between 65-75 degrees) - in plastic vials - germination at 12 years is still 70-80%. Before that, some of the seed was in my garage, which varied between 45 and 80 degrees. Same germination rate. Keeping dry is the most important factor.

[lumierefrere]

I usually start 6 in order to get 2 for me. Even if I get 1 for 1 germination which is absolutely predictable with my own saved seeds, one must plan for catastrophes like last year when the light fixture fell onto the seedlings. As long as I have the 2 healthy, strong individuals, I'm happy. All the spares I bring to the library where people happily adopt them except Craig's weird tendril leaf ones that scared everybody.

[nctomatoman]

Ah, you mean Stick? The Poodle tomato, as I call it! I haven't grown it in awhile, but felt like it is time to live the weirdness again this season!

[Katmary]

LOL Tomatoman, I think my way was pretty piddly compared to yours! I basically DID go with three cells/ 1 type tomato and started one seed each, then decided to go two for each of the three cells, especially ones I really want. I bought my seeds mostly from Tatiana's and about 5 from Totally Tomatoes. I wish I had more room, but have a huge oak tree covering the house and most of the yard so I'm basically squeezing in ET's where I can and as many as I can. Your YouTube videos are great- I definitely don't have anywhere near as many seeds as you, but do tend to plant more dense with my different basils. One more thing- gosh darnoodley good job getting all that dry dirt into the tray with barely spilling! I wet it down and left it out until damp, then started with big spoons to get it in the tray, then later scooped it up with my hands- definitely have a mess outside!

Thank you everyone for your advice. I received one reminder to check here and didn't realize I had more posts until I came on tonight! Thank you all for posting, I feel reassured I did the right thing. My Dad's seeds are different than mine for the most part, plus I have some peppers growing. He's willing to do most of the Earth Tainer labor, so the least I can do is try and grow tomatoes I think he'd like. I'm trying to break him of the perfectly round, red baseball tomato is the only tasty kind, sheesh!

I learned the tough way the last few years that going out with lists of top favorites from the popular tomato sites to the nurseries does NOT mean you'll find them, no matter how many nurseries ya go to! Being in CA means you don't have many places to order actual plants form either. I had back surgeries the last two years at the end of April, so getting my own seeds and giving it a try is actually more relaxing, and I'll finally get the chance to try some I've been anxious to try for some time now. Thank you all so much for your answers and help.

Kathy

[twistingtendril]

Here's a suggestion for Kathy, and in general, for those folks who are looking to buy tomato plants this year. While some nurseries are offering an expanded variety of tomato plants, you still may not find what you want among their offerings. I'd suggest checking your local craigslist, and especially your local farmers markets, for more varieties of tomato plants from small, specialized growers.

I'm suggesting this because I'm a grower, with maybe 120 varieties of tomato plants that I will be listing on craigslist, and also selling at a local farmers market mid-April through May this year. And I know from checking around locally, there are other small growers who have a diverse grow list of tomatoes this season and who also intend to be selling their plants at local markets.

One thing about what nurseries have to offer is, they will be selling tomato plants maybe a month or more sooner than is really appropriate temperature-wise for a given area. They are eager for early spring sales, and people just don't want to wait. Nurseries often have soft, greenhouse-produced plants that are frightened when customers, in a rush of spring fever, buy them and take them home to still-cold soil and chilly nights that make the plants just hold still and not advance until some more weeks roll by and things warm up adequately.

I'm on a different timing schedule, where I will have plants in 4" ready for sale when it's warm enough locally to plant them out. That means I'll be missing the early demand, and missing sales, but will be content expecting the plants I sell will be happy to go home with local customers. My point is, if you're not finding what you're looking for at nurseries now, you might be finding a wider variety at farmers markets and on craigslist a bit later in the Spring season. So don't give up on looking for what you want, it may be available, a bit later, through some independent growers.

That's my two cents' worth, hope it's useful.

[Katmary]

Hi Twisting Tendril,

I actually did use Craigslist last year and agree this is GREAT advice for everyone who would rather buy plants and don't know where to look for good heirlooms, or a better selection of heirlooms. Both last year and the year after joining here and another tomato forums, I'd take my list to all the nurseries and be lucky to fine one tomato on, for example, the Tomatoville top ten lists. I didn't realize how many kinds, despite heirlooms being in various local nurseries, aren't part of the stock yet when they're such popular tomatoes online! So, I went ahead and tried Craigslist last year and while I was told some varieties I was interested in were there, they weren't upon arrival. I sent a friend to pick them up who didn't know much about tomatoes, but apparently everything was very crammed together, which makes sense for why two of three weren't the right kinds I had bought, one died, and the Eva Purple Ball (the one I really wanted) was diseased. That one and another had what must be curly top virus, though they were curlier than even the pictures of curly top virus! I was in a rush to buy and really ran out of time as I was going into the hospital and wanted as much done prior to going in. I *did* see a much better advertisement on Craigslist shortly out of the hospital, but was feeling very worn out after my surgery.

By any chance, are you around the Sacramento area? If so, I'll definitely keep you in mind! I'm very tempted to buy one more pack of tomato seeds (wanted Goose Creek and/or Blondikechen (sp?) and one more pack of pole beans (can likely get those at most nurseries though), but may hold out and pick one plant either from the Farmer's Market in Citrus Heights or Sacramento, or the stores. I've learned my lesson putting tomatoes out on the first sunny weekend, that's for sure! All the ones out right now in the stores look so sad and wilted. I think there's a much bigger chance of getting one with problems this early and would rather wait until the temps are right, even if that means I'm not the first on the block to get a tomato!

I'm having a lot of fun starting seeds, and I think this also will give me some seeds to swap with in the future which I'll enjoy. My Dad loves Armenian Cukes, so I have those started plus some peppers that I'd purchased and of course, lots of basils are started. I've been growing herbs for the last four years and enjoy it a lot. I have other stuff I need to plant still, but some will be sowed outdoors like lettuce, spinach, and carrots. If only I had more room for tomatoes! I started growing a couple tomato plants for my Dad over here since their soil was poor, and not being the biggest tomato lover, I didn't eat too many. I started growing cherry and smaller tomatoes and fell in love, and now I'm a bona fide tomato lover! Half of my tomatoes are on the smaller side, but I'm getting better each year with bigger ones. =D

Thank you for your post, and a very smart reminder! Seriously, I'd consider posting about Craigslist somewhere else for those who many not have thought of it at all, it's truly a great way to go, and even those who aren't growing to sell easily can end up with extras. Being in CA too makes it even more difficult for those wanting seedlings since we can't order out-of-state.

[lumierefrere]

No, Craig, not Stick. The scary ones are what I temporarily called Craig's Pink. All you wrote on the pack was Vial 05-67 (PL5). It was supposed to be a small pink heart maybe? I didn't get one to ripen before the blight destroyed everything but I have some seeds left over so I'm trying again. The non-mutant ones looked cute.

[nctomatoman]

AH, that! The original Brandywine F1 (from Tad X Brandywine X ?) that was the line that led to Lucky Cross and Little Lucky always seems to show some of those weird tendril foliage seedlings. I've not managed to grow one out to fruiting, but a friend did. And it shows up more frequently in the PL than the RL. Odd, hey!

[habitat_gardener]

Originally Posted by Katmary

By any chance, are you around the Sacramento area? If so, I'll definitely keep you in mind! I'm very tempted to buy one more pack of tomato seeds (wanted Goose Creek and/or Blondikechen (sp?)....

If you're planning to go to the SF Flower and Garden Show in San Mateo (April 24-28), I noticed a tomato grower from the coast, Love Apple Farm, who grows a lot of interesting varietites will be selling plants there. She lists Blondkopfchen as one of the ones she's growing this year. I don't know if she'll be bringing the whole inventory or only a few varieties, though. I'm always tempted when I see new-to-me varieties, so I'll probably get a plant or two.

I looked at the seminars for this year's show and was surprised to see how many are focused on edible gardening -- a real change from past years.

[Tania]

Kathy,

I agree with Barb about planting 3 seeds to ensure at least 1 healthy seedling (if you have space). You never know what type of disaster could happen after the seeds germinate. Plus, there are usually so many folks around who would be glad to take your extra plants - I give away about ~200 plants each spring.

In the last two years I have been starting triple amount of seeds, and it works beautifully for me - if 100% survive, I give them away; and even if I get <25% germination, I still end up with enough healthy seedlings

The other very important thing for me is to watch for crosses - planting more seeds than I need gives me a lot of seedlings of the same variety to compare and spot any differences even at the early stages of growth - to identify any crosses/off-types.

Tania