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Old June 22, 2018   #1
Katydid
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Default Sudden Wilting and Gray Dried Up Leaves

OK, I've not seen this before in my garden: sudden wilting of branches and dark leaves on a Pink Berkeley Tie-Die (and slight wilting on an adjacent Black Krim). I'm thinking fusarium wilt or (gulp) late blight. The weather has been hot and dry but we got half an inch of rain yesterday. Diagnosis? Pictures hopefully attached.
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Old June 22, 2018   #2
jillian
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That is one of the two: grey mold or late blight. Perhaps someone more experienced will chime in.
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Old June 22, 2018   #3
Katydid
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I think it could be gray mold (I've had it before), but never along with wilting of healthy branches. Maybe more than one thing going on?



And I'm not seeing anything on the fruit or stems, so maybe "late blight" is unwarranted panic?


(Trying to decide whether to yank the entire plant - unfortunately my favorite variety and loaded with tomatoes getting ripe.)
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Old June 22, 2018   #4
Johnniemar
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Looks like grey mold to me. Pbtd is bad about it in my garden, so bad i don't plant it anymore. I think ggwt is much better anyway, give it a try. I never have gray mold on my ggwt's.
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Old June 22, 2018   #5
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I have a single plant doing the exact same thing. Should the plant be pulled and disposed of? It's new to me.
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Old June 22, 2018   #6
Katydid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnniemar View Post
Looks like grey mold to me. Pbtd is bad about it in my garden, so bad i don't plant it anymore. I think ggwt is much better anyway, give it a try. I never have gray mold on my ggwt's.
OK, I guess the discolored leaves are grey mold. There may have been some earlier on that plant that I forgot about. (I don't usually have much trouble with it on PBTD, though.)


The wilt is something else entirely then. Maybe bacterial wilt?



PS. I get hysterically paranoid about potential threats to my tomatoes. I remember the first year I moved the garden into raised beds, which was a huge improvement. For some reason, however, I got it into my head that late blight was going to show up and wipe out my tomatoes. For an entire month, I could hardly sleep each night worrying about it, and had to rush out early each morning to carefully inspect the plants. Never had any late blight (just the usual: early blight, Septoria, and grey mold).
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Old June 23, 2018   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydid View Post
OK, I guess the discolored leaves are grey mold. There may have been some earlier on that plant that I forgot about. (I don't usually have much trouble with it on PBTD, though.)


The wilt is something else entirely then. Maybe bacterial wilt?



PS. I get hysterically paranoid about potential threats to my tomatoes. I remember the first year I moved the garden into raised beds, which was a huge improvement. For some reason, however, I got it into my head that late blight was going to show up and wipe out my tomatoes. For an entire month, I could hardly sleep each night worrying about it, and had to rush out early each morning to carefully inspect the plants. Never had any late blight (just the usual: early blight, Septoria, and grey mold).
In my opinion I'm sorry to say that I think you have not only gray mold but probably bacterial wilt as well. I don't think that plant is going to survive. If I was you I would pull it but also cut off all of the infected leaves on any of the plants nearby, and spray with some copper at one half of the weakest recommended strength but very thoroughly above and below the leaf surface and down the stem all the way to the soil line. That's so vit the gray mold doesn't spread to plants nearby. Bacterial wilt doesn't leave the soil so I wouldn't plant in that one particular area again, at least not for several years, unless you can sterilize It Maybe by solarizing?
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Old June 23, 2018   #8
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Thanks. The plant didn't look any better this morning, so I went ahead and dug it out. I wanted to cry seeing all of the big, beautiful fruits that were getting ready to ripen. The stems all below the wilted parts showed no internal discoloration (I even did the water glass test to look for streaming bacteria and saw nothing), so maybe it hadn't spread extensively.

I dug out the soil around the root ball. I think later this afternoon when I spray for gray mold on an adjoining Black Krim, I'll add some dilute bleach to the dug out hole, fill it with some sterile potting mix, and not put anything solanaceous there for a few years. (After some consideration, I decided not to build a concrete containment vessel over the spot.)
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Old June 23, 2018   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydid View Post
Thanks. The plant didn't look any better this morning, so I went ahead and dug it out. I wanted to cry seeing all of the big, beautiful fruits that were getting ready to ripen. The stems all below the wilted parts showed no internal discoloration (I even did the water glass test to look for streaming bacteria and saw nothing), so maybe it hadn't spread extensively.

I dug out the soil around the root ball. I think later this afternoon when I spray for gray mold on an adjoining Black Krim, I'll add some dilute bleach to the dug out hole, fill it with some sterile potting mix, and not put anything solanaceous there for a few years. (After some consideration, I decided not to build a concrete containment vessel over the spot.)
I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner. In my past experience with Bacterial Wilt I found through trial and error a method of getting rid of it in the soil where a plant has been sickened and killed by it. I first mix up at least a gallon and sometimes 2 if the plant is large of a solution of 10% bleach and water and pour it slowly around the plant and keep doing this until the immediate area is soaked well. I then wait til the next day and pull the plant and add more of the diluted bleach to the hole just to make sure. I have planted back in the same spot within 10 days with no ill affects and no return of
Bacterial Wilt. I have done this numerous times with good results every time so I assume the bleach is strong enough at the 10% mix with water to kill the bacteria completely. It will also kill any earthworms in the spot but they will return rather quickly once all the bleach has oxidized and the soil has returned to normal. This treatment doesn't guarantee that Bacterial Wilt won't return or pop up in another spot in your garden but it has always cleaned the spot treated and I have done it at least 25 times over the years.

As to your gray mold problem. If you grow black tomato varieties then you will eventually have gray mold if the conditions are right for it to form. I have been battling it since I grew my first black tomato. First time I didn't know what to do and tried using Daconil and it did nothing to stop its progress. The next year I tried the diluted bleach spray and it stopped it immediately but at the loss of every infected leaf. I learned that it is far better to treat it as soon as you see the first signs of gray mold because if you wait it will get much worse and may become unstoppable. It seems to me that it is similar to Late Blight but much slower acting but if you allow it to remain on the plant for too long it seems to become systemic and then it will infect the fruit and stems and overwhelm the plant. I have found that with black varieties of tomatoes it is best to apply a copper spray every week once they start fruiting. I use the Southern Ag brand and usually apply it at the rate of 2 tsps per gallon of water with a little soap for better coverage. This simple thing will prevent most outbreaks of gray mold along with some judicial pruning to keep the plant more open for better air flow and sunlight. When this is not enough and I still get an outbreak of gray mold I immediately spray the plant and any other black tomatoes with the diluted bleach spray. It is more dilute than what is used in the hole to kill back Bacterial Wilt. Read the thread on its use carefully before using it. It is not a preventative but rater a disinfecting of the plant and in the process it will kill or shrivel up any of the plant that is infected by gray mold so using it early is imperative. After the diluted bleach spray I wait 24 to 48 hours and remove all shriveled stems and leaves and then spray the entire plant with a copper spray and at this point if conditions are favorable for gray mold development I will use 1 Tablespoon to the gallon but if the weather is dry and humidity low I will use the 2tsp mix.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...t=bleach+spray

I still grow black tomatoes every year and usually have only minor problems controlling gray mold but it is essential that you learn to recognize it early and start treatment quickly in order to have a successful season. Using the preventive spray of copper will go a long way in simplifying controlling this problem.

Bill
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Old June 24, 2018   #10
Katydid
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Thanks, Bill. You gave me good advice regarding gray mold a number of years ago, and I have since had relatively good success using your bleach treatment spray. I think this year I just didn't take action soon enough. Ironically, I started spraying periodically with copper early this year for a change, but the gray mold still got a foothold nonetheless. And yes, I agree with you that the "black" tomatoes seem to be much more heavily prone to gray mold. At any rate, at least gray mold is a known entity I've had experience dealing with. Not so the bacterial wilt...



Anyway, after I dug out the wilting plant today, I poured about a half a gallon of bleach solution (I didn't measure precisely, but it was probably about a 10:1 dilution) in and around the hole. Do you suggest I follow up with more tomorrow?


Thanks for your advice.


-Barbara



Quote:
Originally Posted by b54red View Post
I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner. In my past experience with Bacterial Wilt I found through trial and error a method of getting rid of it in the soil where a plant has been sickened and killed by it. I first mix up at least a gallon and sometimes 2 if the plant is large of a solution of 10% bleach and water and pour it slowly around the plant and keep doing this until the immediate area is soaked well. I then wait til the next day and pull the plant and add more of the diluted bleach to the hole just to make sure. I have planted back in the same spot within 10 days with no ill affects and no return of
Bacterial Wilt. I have done this numerous times with good results every time so I assume the bleach is strong enough at the 10% mix with water to kill the bacteria completely. It will also kill any earthworms in the spot but they will return rather quickly once all the bleach has oxidized and the soil has returned to normal. This treatment doesn't guarantee that Bacterial Wilt won't return or pop up in another spot in your garden but it has always cleaned the spot treated and I have done it at least 25 times over the years.

As to your gray mold problem. If you grow black tomato varieties then you will eventually have gray mold if the conditions are right for it to form. I have been battling it since I grew my first black tomato. First time I didn't know what to do and tried using Daconil and it did nothing to stop its progress. The next year I tried the diluted bleach spray and it stopped it immediately but at the loss of every infected leaf. I learned that it is far better to treat it as soon as you see the first signs of gray mold because if you wait it will get much worse and may become unstoppable. It seems to me that it is similar to Late Blight but much slower acting but if you allow it to remain on the plant for too long it seems to become systemic and then it will infect the fruit and stems and overwhelm the plant. I have found that with black varieties of tomatoes it is best to apply a copper spray every week once they start fruiting. I use the Southern Ag brand and usually apply it at the rate of 2 tsps per gallon of water with a little soap for better coverage. This simple thing will prevent most outbreaks of gray mold along with some judicial pruning to keep the plant more open for better air flow and sunlight. When this is not enough and I still get an outbreak of gray mold I immediately spray the plant and any other black tomatoes with the diluted bleach spray. It is more dilute than what is used in the hole to kill back Bacterial Wilt. Read the thread on its use carefully before using it. It is not a preventative but rater a disinfecting of the plant and in the process it will kill or shrivel up any of the plant that is infected by gray mold so using it early is imperative. After the diluted bleach spray I wait 24 to 48 hours and remove all shriveled stems and leaves and then spray the entire plant with a copper spray and at this point if conditions are favorable for gray mold development I will use 1 Tablespoon to the gallon but if the weather is dry and humidity low I will use the 2tsp mix.

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...t=bleach+spray

I still grow black tomatoes every year and usually have only minor problems controlling gray mold but it is essential that you learn to recognize it early and start treatment quickly in order to have a successful season. Using the preventive spray of copper will go a long way in simplifying controlling this problem.

Bill
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Old June 24, 2018   #11
b54red
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydid View Post
Thanks, Bill. You gave me good advice regarding gray mold a number of years ago, and I have since had relatively good success using your bleach treatment spray. I think this year I just didn't take action soon enough. Ironically, I started spraying periodically with copper early this year for a change, but the gray mold still got a foothold nonetheless. And yes, I agree with you that the "black" tomatoes seem to be much more heavily prone to gray mold. At any rate, at least gray mold is a known entity I've had experience dealing with. Not so the bacterial wilt...



Anyway, after I dug out the wilting plant today, I poured about a half a gallon of bleach solution (I didn't measure precisely, but it was probably about a 10:1 dilution) in and around the hole. Do you suggest I follow up with more tomorrow?


Thanks for your advice.


-Barbara
Unless your ground is very wet then a half gallon may not disperse into enough soil to get most or all of the Bacterial Wilt. I would use more today and then wait about two weeks to replant in that spot.

Gray mold can get a hold of a plant before you know it. I still find myself missing the first signs sometimes because I am not checking as carefully as I should. Sporadically spraying with copper is not sufficient if conditions are right for gray mold. It is better to spray regularly with the copper unless you are having some really dry low humidity conditions. I rarely see it pop up when that happens but then those conditions rarely happen down here.

Bacterial wilt can be a real nightmare if that is what you had to go along with the gray mold. I have been lucky enough not to have a case for the last 3 years. I'm pretty sure it is a bit of luck and also using the RST-04-106-T root stock for the past few years. Before that I would lose a few or a lot of plants to it almost every year. What made it so bad was that it seemed to only hit healthy plants loaded with fruit. It is a real sickening feeling to walk out into the garden and see a once vigorous green plant looking like a wilted, yet still green, mess in just a few hours.

Bill
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Old June 24, 2018   #12
Katydid
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Thanks. I did as you suggested. But just a little while ago I noticed a pepper plant in another raised bed (not close to the tomatoes) that has completely wilted! (I've had that happen occasionally with that variety - but only late in the season.) Blast. I can't dig up and bleach the whole garden.



Quote:
Originally Posted by b54red View Post
Unless your ground is very wet then a half gallon may not disperse into enough soil to get most or all of the Bacterial Wilt. I would use more today and then wait about two weeks to replant in that spot.

Gray mold can get a hold of a plant before you know it. I still find myself missing the first signs sometimes because I am not checking as carefully as I should. Sporadically spraying with copper is not sufficient if conditions are right for gray mold. It is better to spray regularly with the copper unless you are having some really dry low humidity conditions. I rarely see it pop up when that happens but then those conditions rarely happen down here.

Bacterial wilt can be a real nightmare if that is what you had to go along with the gray mold. I have been lucky enough not to have a case for the last 3 years. I'm pretty sure it is a bit of luck and also using the RST-04-106-T root stock for the past few years. Before that I would lose a few or a lot of plants to it almost every year. What made it so bad was that it seemed to only hit healthy plants loaded with fruit. It is a real sickening feeling to walk out into the garden and see a once vigorous green plant looking like a wilted, yet still green, mess in just a few hours.

Bill
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