new greenhouse, new growth curled

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by greenthumbomaha

I live 30 miles from pecker88. My plants look like that this year too. I have had them outside in this cool weather at night, after the weeks of mid 70's. Pecker88, how long were they in the greenhouse and at what temp and what day/night did you set them out.

Second, did you pot up with the same mix for all? The same bag too?

In my situation I used different bags and mix, so it is hard to pinpoint the cause. I also have a neighbor next door that uses tru green. I'd be interested to know the lag time between herbicide exposure and visible damage at different ages of seedlings. Hopefully we can beat this.


As to the ph of the water (and soil) , I will pass on a comment from an old timer ...

Eastern Nebraska is all alkaline and clay, and we grow just fine here. I'd be hard pressed to argue against that point.

- Lisa

I was hoping to hear from someone local!

I started setting the flats out in the greenhouse around the last part of March? I really can't remember. If it was a nice sunny day, they were out there. At night I would bring them back in.

All the toms and peppers have went through some very cold weather after I planted them out but in all cases temps never approached freezing, maybe high 30's, and the GH sides were always closed.

Compost is from the City of Lincoln, who sends samples to a lab for analysis prior to releasing it to the public. Herbicide residue is not tested for though; I did not see it on the lap report.

I dug down about 6-8" in the raised beds last night and it is still VERY wet. Our terrible clay soil is like the raised beds are sitting on a concrete slab i.e. little water penetration into the clay and very poor drainage. If I didn't have raised beds I could NEVER grow anything.

Although herbicide residue in compost is still a candidate, I'm beginning to think that the issue here is cold nights and 7" of rain over the last few weeks, making for wet feet. We all know peppers don't tolerate wet feet, and they for sure look worse then the toms.

I agree about the water pH, although not optimal, it can't be too big of a problem. There are some HUGE outdoor gardens in our sub division that look awesome every year and everyone has the same well water. I doubt they are all treating their water for high pH.

I'll keep updating.

[Ricky Shaw]

That's why I thought I'd mention in the separate post that my friend with the >8.0 pH could not grow grass, there could be other things going on with dissolved solids at 2800 ppm. Weld county where the fellow lives is fracking central, dozens of wells within 20 miles.

I would think if you can grow grass with your well water, it should grow plants.

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by Ricky Shaw

That's why I thought I'd mention in the separate post that my friend with the >8.0 pH could not grow grass, there could be other things going on with dissolved solids at 2800 ppm. Weld county where the fellow lives is fracking central, dozens of wells within 20 miles.

I would think if you can grow grass with your well water, it should grow plants.

Yes, our yard is beautiful all summer. Another thought...my dad runs 10 center pivots on his corn/soybean fields. Same well water no issues and no pH treatment.

[Clint M]

I have the exact same problem as you, I thought it was a virus, however I'm not sure now. Hand miss a row of 20 plants number 3, 6, 7, 8, 9 were hit, another row one plant ? Walking down the road I noticed along one side of road on fence kudzu and honey suckles and a few other plants looks wilted, and showed similar leaf growths ? Other side of road nothing, but this is 1/4 mile away , and my corn and nothing else in garden is affected. I pulled one plant to inspect roots, and they are water logged from all the rain. So for now I'm going with wet feet, and not much I can do about it.

The pictures of your plants are a spitting image of mine, however the new grow is a light green on my plants. I know it isn't much help as it could still well be herbicide, virus, I guess the best would be wet feet from all the rain we have had, and temps down in low 50's many nights.

[saltair]

If the plants are dark green I would suggest to much Nitrogen. Tomatoes do NOT like their feet wet so if you cut back on the water, and when you do water use store bought (so called) spring water on just a few of your plants. This way you can stare and compare to see if the water is the problem.

Last year my Tom's and peppers looked like this and when I took samples to our County ext. agency which is part of the University of Delaware. they found it to be herbicide burn. Over spray on a windy day from the farmer spraying a pre emergence in the field behind us. The peppers were stunted and lived and they would blossom but would not produce peppers.

Keep us informed.

You said your broccoli, onions and other cool weather crops are fine. What I did notice was the PURPLE stems of your tomato plant. This is usually caused by phosphorous deficiency or dramatic temperature changes (cold).

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by saltair

If the plants are dark green I would suggest to much Nitrogen. Tomatoes do NOT like their feet wet so if you cut back on the water, and when you do water use store bought (so called) spring water on just a few of your plants. This way you can stare and compare to see if the water is the problem.

Last year my Tom's and peppers looked like this and when I took samples to our County ext. agency which is part of the University of Delaware. they found it to be herbicide burn. Over spray on a windy day from the farmer spraying a pre emergence in the field behind us. The peppers were stunted and lived and they would blossom but would not produce peppers.

Keep us informed.

You said your broccoli, onions and other cool weather crops are fine. What I did notice was the PURPLE stems of your tomato plant. This is usually caused by phosphorous deficiency or dramatic temperature changes (cold).

Thanks for the advice. Since my initial post I also potted 4 peppers in 5 gal SWC's so we'll see how they do. So far my big boy tomato in 20 gal SWC tote looks awesome. All SWC's getting same water.

[Clint M]

I have some toms with light green curl, a few wth deep purple stems. The few a pulled had a white fungus like on the stem just below dirt level.. It seems the hearts are most sustainable ? I have pictures I will try to post 3 more days and if no results I'm pulling and setting out more. I have pictures small insects, but they are dead from my poison spray. I just hope it's not a virus !! curly top I'm scared of.. My plant is to let them dry out, try a weak bleach on one plant then pull. Anna Russian if I recall are the hardest hit.

My potato leafs look good, and also regular leaf so far, in my opinion potato leaf is the most resistant to disease, maybe some fungus, septoria spot which can be controlled by docosanol. I will try to upload pictures and I have a good shot of my corn that is amazing this year in the background.

[zipcode]

If the high pH is really the fault, than to recover them soonest, spray with some micromineral solution (Fe,Cu,Zn,Mn,B), maybe there are mixtures premade in right ratios. They are the ones that get locked out at high pH, and are usually well absorbed through leaves.

[pecker88]

Greenhouse update

Tomatoes are looking a little better, peppers planted in raised beds still the same.
4 peppers in 5 gal SWC's are looking AWESOME.

For some reason, I have 1 New Big Dwarf planted in raised bed that looks AWESOME. Seemingly overnight, after 1.4" of rain the leaf wrinkling and curling is completely gone.

Even though the the plants do not get direct rain because of the greenhouse poly covering, I noticed the soil in the raised beds does get wetter after a rain. I think moisture wicks from around the GH to the raised beds.

A few days ago I also mixed up 1/2 strength "seedling/cutting" dose of General Hydroponics FloraMicro fertilizer and sprayed the tomato and pepper plant leaves -- per zipcode's recommendation above. This was a very low concentration, I don't want to burn/hurt these plants any more then I already have.

Bean experiment with raised bed soil vs. bagged mix
2 of 3 bagged mix beans are about 3 inches tall and growing. 1 of 3 is not up yet.

1 of 3 raised bed soil beans are about 3 inches tall and growing. 2 of 3 is not up yet.

[greenthumbomaha]

It's also been sunny and warm for a few days, so hopefully things started to return to normal. As I am writing this and watching the weather I see major storms in the Lincoln area. It's very sultry here now. I see we are both under a tornado watch.

- Lisa

Originally Posted by pecker88

Greenhouse update

Tomatoes are looking a little better, peppers planted in raised beds still the same.
4 peppers in 5 gal SWC's are looking AWESOME.

For some reason, I have 1 New Big Dwarf planted in raised bed that looks AWESOME. Seemingly overnight, after 1.4" of rain the leaf wrinkling and curling is completely gone.

Even though the the plants do not get direct rain because of the greenhouse poly covering, I noticed the soil in the raised beds does get wetter after a rain. I think moisture wicks from around the GH to the raised beds.

A few days ago I also mixed up 1/2 strength "seedling/cutting" dose of General Hydroponics FloraMicro fertilizer and sprayed the tomato and pepper plant leaves -- per zipcode's recommendation above. This was a very low concentration, I don't want to burn/hurt these plants any more then I already have.

Bean experiment with raised bed soil vs. bagged mix
2 of 3 bagged mix beans are about 3 inches tall and growing. 1 of 3 is not up yet.

1 of 3 raised bed soil beans are about 3 inches tall and growing. 2 of 3 is not up yet.

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by greenthumbomaha

It's also been sunny and warm for a few days, so hopefully things started to return to normal. As I am writing this and watching the weather I see major storms in the Lincoln area. It's very sultry here now. I see we are both under a tornado watch.

- Lisa

Yep, another at least 1.5" inches today. That brings the total for the the last 4 days to 4". Weather report had 20-60% changes for the next 5 days!!

[pecker88]

bean experiment to test compost herbicide residual theory.

pots have been in 70 deg. basement under T5 florescent lights
2 bean seeds planted in each pot

2 of 6 beans germinated in greenhouse soil
4 of 6 beans germinated in pro mix

Deformed/curled new growth of greenhouse soil, normal looking new growth on pro mix soil. If I would have fertilized pro mix pots, they would look great.

I'm calling this herb. residual. All plants except onions and brocoli in greenhouse look terrible still. Plants in pro mix SWC's look awesome, all using the same water, same fertilizer, same environment. The only dif. is soil.

greenhouse soil in left 3 pots, pro Mix in Right 3 pots




New growth, greenhouse soil:




New Growth Pro Mix

[Ricky Shaw]

A fine howdy, pffft. Now you know at least. Sorry for all that work.

[AKmark]

I looked at your pics twice. I think your N is too high. The plants are very dark green with a blue hue, and the leaf size is small.
It is hard to tell by a pic, but that is my thought.
Good luck

[zipcode]

Usually N is the main culprit for curled new growth I admit, but in the first set of pictures, the edges of the leaves are just so odd, chainsaw-like and uneven, really not normal.