Stumped

[beefyboy]

Last time I wrote on this thread, it was from my little phone in response to Steve thoughts about imidicloprid. Will comment further now!. From all I have read on whitefly and aphids and spreading of most diseases at least in hot humid area's like Texas, Florida and the likes, is just as I stated at the beginning of this thread. It is mostly spread from the bugs sucking the sap of an open wound on a tomato plant or just from the undersides of the leaves. They are not wind blown diseases as I heard mentioned and have nothing to do with wind. I think Southern gardeners know much better than this anyway cuz they are in this battle heavily and the whitefly has been an epidemic here in Florida for the last 6 years. Tomato farmers here have been using imidicloprid for awhile and most of your citrus trees are being treated with it now. Everyone knows to use label guidelines so lets get past the warnings of the bees now and get back to stopping this problem as much as possible so gardeners can get some tomatoes from there favorite heirlooms. I don't personally want to lose another 96 tomato and pepper plants to this problem again. I use natural means all the time and add the fopllowing to my regime. I have bought all new seed for every variety I am planting for there may be something to the spread of some viruses through your existing seed. So I have left nothing to chance to get this problem solved.

[beefyboy]

And one more thing to add on imidicloprid. It is not only a systemic, it can be used as a spray and will last 1 month that way. If used systemically, it will last about 3 months. In hydro, I will spray it on instead of treating my 55 gal reservoir for the whole system.

[b54red]

Well so far I haven't had to resort to any type of systemic pesticide but whiteflies and spider mites could force the issue sometime in the future. I haven't used anything stronger that Permethrin for the last 3 years but I have resorted to Malathion in the past for spider mites and once for whiteflies. I started using an IGR two years ago for spider mites and so far it has been effective but no telling how long it will work. Whiteflies were not too bad last year but a couple of years before they were horrible. They were so thick that I had to wear a dust mask when tying up my plants in order to not breath them in. I haven't had any big outbreaks of viruses other than the usual TSWV I lose some plants to every year.

Beefy, I don't think most people in other parts of the country realize the pest and disease problems prevalent in the lower part of the southeast. Lack of cold winters, high humidity and scorching temperatures combined with a lot of commercial tomato growing result in a host of problems for the small gardener. If you want to successfully grow more than a couple of heirloom tomato plants down here you have to resort to more than just soapy water and pinching off leaves and bugs. I happily apply Daconil knowing it will give me a chance to see a ripe tomato on a plant with a few green leaves. Diluted bleach spray has saved many of the plants the Daconil didn't protect enough. Sevin has saved my tomatoes and vines more than once from some kind of pickle worm that Dipel didn't even discourage. I love neem oil and use it every year but sometimes it just isn't that effective and when treating a good number of plants it is quite expensive. I would have gone broke a few years ago using only neem oil when I had that bad infestation of whiteflies treating over 90 full grown tomato plants and 30 or so bell peppers. I was spraying every 3 or 4 days and only treading water as my plants were getting sucked dry. In desperation I used Malathion in very soapy water and it thankfully slowed them down enough for less potent methods to keep them at bay. My next step was going to be a systemic if the malathion had not worked.

I can only remember one summer when the humidity was relatively low most of the season with the temperatures also cooler. That was the only year I can recall where both pests and diseases were not a major concern. It was wonderful and I keep hoping it will happen again but I fear it was a once in a lifetime occurrence down here.

I usually go with the least potent product til it doesn't work; but have no qualms about using fairly mild pesticides and fungicides to protect my plants. I have no faith that letting nature take its course will work with growing tomatoes down here and this comes from nearly 40 years of hard learned lessons.

[Heritage]

Beefyboy,

My post was in reply to duajones request for information - it wasn't my intent to criticize your use of imidacloprid. As a commercial cut flower grower, I apply more imidacloprid in one application than you will apply in a lifetime. I am in no position to judge anyone's use of any pesticide.

My intent is to discourage anyone from using imidacloprid on any edible crop unless you read and follow the label directions exactly as written. As far as I know, there is only one imidacloprid product registered for homeowner use (on edibles) and the only method of application listed on the label is as a soil drench - therefore, it should not be sprayed on the foliage and the amount applied to the soil should be exactly as described on the label. Additionally, pests build up a resistance to the neo-nicotinoids rather easily, so it is important to rotate imidacloprid with other methods of pest control. And, imidacloprid won't kill the whitefly eggs.

I probably didn't make my explanation of insect vector transmission (via the wind or flight) clear enough. Although it is important to keep the offending insect under control on your tomato plants (in your case I assume you are fighting Silver Leaf Whitefly and the spread of TYCLV) it is equally important to stop the whitefly before it reaches your tomatoes. There are many host weeds for TYCLV and when Silver Leaf Whitefly feeds on an infected host plant it has the potential to infect your tomatoes when they fly, or are wind-blown, to your tomatoes. Weed control and yellow sticky traps are two effective methods used to detour the whitefly before they reach your plants. Also timely planting is effective - planting when the local whitefly population is low helps.

As far as imidacloprid and the role it plays in "Colony Collapse Disorder", the subject is probably too political for this forum, so I will let others Google it and decide for themselves.

I'm glad I only have the viruses to deal with in San Diego - In 2012 I lost a good percentage (over 200) of plants earmarked for seed production to TSWV. I don't envy the battle you have in Florida (and other humid states) to deal with both the viruses AND the fungal diseases. Best of luck - I hope you win the war!

Steve

[b54red]

Heritage, you never win the war down here. You just go from battle to battle with little respite in between.