Curious as to what is going on with mailed seeds - Page 5

**carolyn137** · April 18, 2006

Jeff,

Hi again, and I will gently disagree with you on one account and that's your crushed seed comment.

I've sent out thousands upon thousands of seed packs of tomato seed since about 1990, which is about the same time Craig got you interested, LOL, in heirloom tomatoes.

And well I remember your doing the address labels for us for Off The Vine in those early years of the 90's.

Such seed has been sent to almost all areas of the US as well as many other countries and still no problems.

And not once has anyone experienced crushed seeds. And Craig doesn't use bubble wrap or padded mailers either, at least with seed that he sends me, and all is well.

I use regular business envelopes with no bubble wrap, but do use padded mailers if the number of packs is over 12 to one destination.

And I've also received many many varieties sent to me the same way and they were not crushed either, and they were sent without any padding either.

larger seeds such as bean, etc., yes, there can be a problem, but small seed such as pepper and tomato have not been a problem for me or any of my long term SSE friends as regards crushed seed when NOT using bubble wrap or padded mailers.

michael johnson · April 18, 2006

Hello Jeff, - thats some very good observations and interesting theories- well worth looking into.

regarding the max/min heat sensors, you can usualy find these in their cheapest form at any large garden centre in the form of max/min thermometer for day and night temp, as it leaves little pins in the tubes at the level of the max/min - highest/lowest temps,

As I mentioned earlier a week or two ago- we had a big problem over here in the Uk with heat- in the big garden centres as many of them are built on the style of a gigantic greenhouse with glass roofing, and seed companies show stands- full of seeds for sale were always on display, some of them packed in foil sealed pkts and dated as that years harvest seeds, complete with sell -by-date stamp etc, and lots and lots of them was not germinating at all- if they had been on display during the previous month or so.

Since that time- things have changed , as there were hundreds of complaints , seeds are now stored in a very cool area outside under a something like a large garage porch- glass or plastic shaded roof but with open sides.

The only flaw I can see with bubble pack envelopes and bubble pack packaging etc, is that the bubble pack is supposed to be a very good insulator against heat or cold- therefore the temp inside the pkts would be much different to the outside temp-regardless, although it does offer very good protection against crushing etc.

I always store my seeds in the fridge in a sealed tupperware plastic box, year in year out ( my own saved seeds, traded seeds, etc ) in their original pkts, and when I get them out to use them they perform exactly the same as when they went in, good or bad seed -no change seems to be observed other than remaining as fresh as the day they went in.

the very best insulator is polystyrene, perhaps if some of us got hold of a bag full of granulated polystyrene- the same as they use for roof insulation in between the wooden joists, like little beads size granules, and then put a thin layer into a bubblepack envelope after you have put the seed pkts in the middle- it might solve the problem, as it would be shielded pretty much against all cold and heat during its journey.

Tomstrees · April 20, 2006

Here is a "mutant" growing from
a mailed seed from Canada ~
Its a Mortgage Lifter, and was / is
a polycot ~

Tom

michael johnson · April 23, 2006

How are the proposed tests going ?????, has anyone actualy tried anything yet to get a result !!!,

Perhaps if someone strapped a docimeter back to back with a max/min thermometer ( greenhouse type cheaply available ) it would give both radiation results, and temp results all in one go, and then sent them on a series of different postal pathways through the worst effected areas criss crossing the USA- it would give the answer we have all been hoping for.

If it did not give the required results and everything was within acceptable perameters and not OTT, then we could rule that as the cause and look for something else instead.

It would be very unwise to ignore the problems and not carry out some sort of testing this season, as the problems could only get worse rather than better- next season might well bring terrible germination results to lots of people.

Since Lots of people have said on here that lots of the seeds they got from Tomatofest didnt germinate after they had been sent through the post- has anyone thought of contacting the owner ( Gary Ibsen ) in California to see if he has had noticable feedback of this problem, we might be able to help him too.

If not- then it must be something to do with transit outside that area into other states and countries overseas.

Obviously lots of the non germination problem seed came from other scources as well as those mentioned above, but I wonder if any of those have been suffering in silence with the problem and not trying to solve it -if any .

gflynn · April 23, 2006

Craig,

Of the Russian (pink) seeds you sent I planted 12 and 2 came up. Carolyn, said that her seeds were rather old and perhaps yours were as well? In any case I needed 2 and I got 2 so this worked out efficiently.

One is for my neighbor that will, possibly, be reunited with her tomato and the other is for me to try and save seed and list.

Fusion sent me seed for Dr. Carolyn Pink and Kimberly. The Kimberly had a 40% germination rate. Mantis also recieved seed from Fusion but got a 0% germination.

Fusion gave me a large amount of Dr. Carolyn pink seeds and from 50 of those 2 germinated.

The thing is that the Dr. Carolyn Pink and the Kimberly came from the same envelope and yet had very different germination rates. I experienced similar things from seed I saved myself.

Dr. Lyle had a 40% germination rate and Cherokee Green required twice as long to germinate as other varieties.

Greg

**nctomatoman** · April 23, 2006

The seed for Russian is 10 years old - glad that you got a couple to come up! Let me know what you think of the tomato - I really like it.

gflynn · April 24, 2006

Craig,

I am growing Russian in a 13.5 gallon pot with plenty of sun. It should produce well if its anything like other plants I have had in the same spot.

Miss Utility is marking up my lawn tommorow so I can figure out where I can grow even more tomatoes in my front yard. Hope the community association dosn't complain :-)

Greg

April 18, 2006	#61
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Jeff, Hi again, and I will gently disagree with you on one account and that's your crushed seed comment. I've sent out thousands upon thousands of seed packs of tomato seed since about 1990, which is about the same time Craig got you interested, LOL, in heirloom tomatoes. And well I remember your doing the address labels for us for Off The Vine in those early years of the 90's. Such seed has been sent to almost all areas of the US as well as many other countries and still no problems. And not once has anyone experienced crushed seeds. And Craig doesn't use bubble wrap or padded mailers either, at least with seed that he sends me, and all is well. I use regular business envelopes with no bubble wrap, but do use padded mailers if the number of packs is over 12 to one destination. And I've also received many many varieties sent to me the same way and they were not crushed either, and they were sent without any padding either. larger seeds such as bean, etc., yes, there can be a problem, but small seed such as pepper and tomato have not been a problem for me or any of my long term SSE friends as regards crushed seed when NOT using bubble wrap or padded mailers. __________________ Carolyn

April 20, 2006	#63
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	Here is a "mutant" growing from a mailed seed from Canada ~ Its a Mortgage Lifter, and was / is a polycot ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

April 23, 2006	#66
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	The seed for Russian is 10 years old - glad that you got a couple to come up! Let me know what you think of the tomato - I really like it. __________________ Craig

April 18, 2006	#62
michael johnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK. Posts: 960	Hello Jeff, - thats some very good observations and interesting theories- well worth looking into. regarding the max/min heat sensors, you can usualy find these in their cheapest form at any large garden centre in the form of max/min thermometer for day and night temp, as it leaves little pins in the tubes at the level of the max/min - highest/lowest temps, As I mentioned earlier a week or two ago- we had a big problem over here in the Uk with heat- in the big garden centres as many of them are built on the style of a gigantic greenhouse with glass roofing, and seed companies show stands- full of seeds for sale were always on display, some of them packed in foil sealed pkts and dated as that years harvest seeds, complete with sell -by-date stamp etc, and lots and lots of them was not germinating at all- if they had been on display during the previous month or so. Since that time- things have changed , as there were hundreds of complaints , seeds are now stored in a very cool area outside under a something like a large garage porch- glass or plastic shaded roof but with open sides. The only flaw I can see with bubble pack envelopes and bubble pack packaging etc, is that the bubble pack is supposed to be a very good insulator against heat or cold- therefore the temp inside the pkts would be much different to the outside temp-regardless, although it does offer very good protection against crushing etc. I always store my seeds in the fridge in a sealed tupperware plastic box, year in year out ( my own saved seeds, traded seeds, etc ) in their original pkts, and when I get them out to use them they perform exactly the same as when they went in, good or bad seed -no change seems to be observed other than remaining as fresh as the day they went in. the very best insulator is polystyrene, perhaps if some of us got hold of a bag full of granulated polystyrene- the same as they use for roof insulation in between the wooden joists, like little beads size granules, and then put a thin layer into a bubblepack envelope after you have put the seed pkts in the middle- it might solve the problem, as it would be shielded pretty much against all cold and heat during its journey.

April 23, 2006	#65
gflynn MAGTAG™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Posts: 437	Craig, Of the Russian (pink) seeds you sent I planted 12 and 2 came up. Carolyn, said that her seeds were rather old and perhaps yours were as well? In any case I needed 2 and I got 2 so this worked out efficiently. One is for my neighbor that will, possibly, be reunited with her tomato and the other is for me to try and save seed and list. Fusion sent me seed for Dr. Carolyn Pink and Kimberly. The Kimberly had a 40% germination rate. Mantis also recieved seed from Fusion but got a 0% germination. Fusion gave me a large amount of Dr. Carolyn pink seeds and from 50 of those 2 germinated. The thing is that the Dr. Carolyn Pink and the Kimberly came from the same envelope and yet had very different germination rates. I experienced similar things from seed I saved myself. Dr. Lyle had a 40% germination rate and Cherokee Green required twice as long to germinate as other varieties. Greg

April 24, 2006	#67
gflynn MAGTAG™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Posts: 437	Craig, I am growing Russian in a 13.5 gallon pot with plenty of sun. It should produce well if its anything like other plants I have had in the same spot. Miss Utility is marking up my lawn tommorow so I can figure out where I can grow even more tomatoes in my front yard. Hope the community association dosn't complain :-) Greg