Starting with Tomato Tone

[Starlight]

Being new last year I didn't learn about Tomato Tone until later in the season. By then my plants were well developed and in final containers. Last year, when I learned about TT, I just scratched it in the top of the soil.

I got my TT for this year and am wondering when I should first start using it. My seedlings start out in 1/2" x 1/2" trays, when true leaves are present then I move them to a 3" container, then later to 6" and then to there final containers.

Yes, lots of transplanting, but that is how I do my plants. I enjoy messing with them until they go into their final containers, plus that way I can keep checking on the root systems for any potential problems.

So should I use some TT with each transplanting, or wait until I plant in final containers? Too, please, do I mix it with the soil before putting plants in containers, or just on the top of the soil only?

[RayR]

I do mix a little Tomato-Tone or Plant-Tone in the soil before potting up. The potting soils I normally use for potting don't have much nutrients to begin with. It never hurt a thing and the plants respond well to it.

[elight]

This is the first time I haven't added any fertilizers to my seedlings. Started with Jiffy seed starting mix and potted up to MG (usually use a higher quality mix but didn't have time this year to drive across town to obtain it). They probably both have a little fertilizer in them. I found my plants were perfectly healthy and less leggy than they've been in the past.

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[Barbee]

I mix a good bit in my container prior to planting then top dress it as needed. Nutrients wash out faster in a container IMO

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by RayR

I do mix a little Tomato-Tone or Plant-Tone in the soil before potting up. The potting soils I normally use for potting don't have much nutrients to begin with. It never hurt a thing and the plants respond well to it.

Thank you Ray! I had tried to look back over some of your threads about TT, but I must have missed mixing it in the soil. Love the stuff. I don't think my plants would have done as well without it even though they didn't get it til late. I use it on everything now.

Originally Posted by Barbee

I mix a good bit in my container prior to planting then top dress it as needed. Nutrients wash out faster in a container IMO

Barbee... I totally agree. With drought and long periods of unbelievable heat I am usually watering everyday to twice a day and nutrients don't stay in the soil long at all.

Originally Posted by elight

This is the first time I haven't added any fertilizers to my seedlings. Started with Jiffy seed starting mix and potted up to MG (usually use a higher quality mix but didn't have time this year to drive across town to obtain it). They probably both have a little fertilizer in them. I found my plants were perfectly healthy and less leggy than they've been in the past.

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Elight... Your braver than me. I tried once of just using MG and my plants had a poor showing even with a good potting mix. Foliage as the plants got bigger showed signs of deficiencies and struggled. I'd be interested in learning how your season goes if you continue without the use of fertilizers.

[elight]

The MG was only for potting up into solo cups. Then they went into either EarthTainers (using Ray's 3-2-1 with Fafard as the potting mix) or raised beds (using Mel's Mix). The EarthTainers this year had BioTone and Jobe's 4-4-4. I think I put some BioTone in the beds, along with the compost from the mix. I began fertilizing the beds with Dynagro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 immediately. Have not added anything to the ETs yet, but will do so either when they show a deficiency or when they start fruiting. Once fruit sets, I start using Texas Tomato Food on everything. I really want to push the plants hard this year to battle the short season (already supposed to hit 90 next week!).

So... I guess I do use some fertilizers. =)

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[kurt]

I just transplanted my Tomato plugs(from tray cells)into their final containers 5-10 gallons (variety dependent).In years past found that a good scattering and mix of Promix/TT in the bottom of container(8inch)then plop the plug in,fill in more straight Pro mix (3/4 up container)then a circular scattering of TT around plug,a dab on top of plug at base of seedling,then final fill in, with a 1/2 strength water mixed fertilizer soaking, and a top off of final Promix will ensure a good start for young seedling but not enough to "burn" the young roots.The resulting seasonal watering will activate the granules after the roots work and find the water/moisture.I like to "hand weigh"my plants at this time to get the feel of the water/moisture content.Once they get developed it is all out watering with soluble mixed in ferts for optimal results.

[luigiwu]

before my plants go outside, I do water them with a weak solution of miracle gro. Learned that from Worth. They are great and very healthy. I do respect the organic-ness (is there such a word?) of using tomato-tone instead though.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by elight

The MG was only for potting up into solo cups. Then they went into either EarthTainers (using Ray's 3-2-1 with Fafard as the potting mix) or raised beds (using Mel's Mix). The EarthTainers this year had BioTone and Jobe's 4-4-4. I think I put some BioTone in the beds, along with the compost from the mix. I began fertilizing the beds with Dynagro Foliage Pro 9-3-6 immediately. Have not added anything to the ETs yet, but will do so either when they show a deficiency or when they start fruiting. Once fruit sets, I start using Texas Tomato Food on everything. I really want to push the plants hard this year to battle the short season (already supposed to hit 90 next week!).

So... I guess I do use some fertilizers. =)

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Ahhhh. I get you now. I tried solo cups last year on some seedlings. Spent two whole days making all the holes in the bottom of the cups. I didn't do well with that method. I had problems with over watering using them. I like the Fafard potting mix, unfortunately they don't sell it around here anymore.

One day, I want to try an ET just to see how it does.

Originally Posted by kurt

I just transplanted my Tomato plugs(from tray cells)into their final containers 5-10 gallons (variety dependent).In years past found that a good scattering and mix of Promix/TT in the bottom of container(8inch)then plop the plug in,fill in more straight Pro mix (3/4 up container)then a circular scattering of TT around plug,a dab on top of plug at base of seedling,then final fill in, with a 1/2 strength water mixed fertilizer soaking, and a top off of final Promix will ensure a good start for young seedling but not enough to "burn" the young roots.The resulting seasonal watering will activate the granules after the roots work and find the water/moisture.I like to "hand weigh"my plants at this time to get the feel of the water/moisture content.Once they get developed it is all out watering with soluble mixed in ferts for optimal results.

Thanks Kurt! You answered my next question. I was wondering about exactly how much TT to mix in the soil without burning the young roots. I had looked on the back of the bag and that didn't help me. I always get a bit nervous when I am trying something new. I was nervous last year when I learned about TT, but when I saw in a couple of days how the plants flourished with it. I was sold on the stuff. Best year I ever had growing.

I hand weigh my containers too. Actually I do the "tippy" method (wimpy arms with those 5 gallon buckets) to check til they all start getting to large to tip the pots, then I switch over to counting.

Originally Posted by luigiwu

before my plants go outside, I do water them with a weak solution of miracle gro. Learned that from Worth. They are great and very healthy. I do respect the organic-ness (is there such a word?) of using tomato-tone instead though.

Me too. Years ago I learned that the seedlings only had so many days that they could draw nutrients from the seed coat. Once I take my seedlings out of the baggy I generally wait a couple of days for them to get acclimated then I start feeding with the weak MG. I feed for 5 days when tiny, then just plain water for two, to flush out any salts that might build up.

[BajaMitch]

FWIW, Tomato Tone has what I believe to be a better, more suitable N-P-K-Ca-S ratio compared to other similar ferts popularly used for container tomatoes. It's the closest that I have found to the optimum ratio that my research has shown. So far my ratio is a theoretical guess at this point, but I am pretty confident of it...theoretically. However, the TT ratio is a bit too strong on Ca and a little too strong on S, and, as far as the package indicates, lacks magnesium altogether...not good.

I make up for the excesses and deficiencies by combining TT with other ferts in a balanced way to attain the exact ratio I am targeting.

Calcium can be problematic with TT if your irrigation water contains significant amounts of Ca. My plumbed water will supply at least a third of all the calcium the plant needs. Also, I am conscious of the chemical affect of an imbalance of K, Ca, and Mg. The literature says that imbalances in those three nutrients can lead to lead to uptake inhibition and therefore a plant deficiency in the nutrient crowded out by too much of one of those three chemicals.

Lots of variables to watch out for. There is an accepted theory out there that says a tomato plant will thrive at its optimal best and will uptake the optimal amount of all nutrients when you supply exactly what the plant needs exactly when it needs it; nothing more, nothing less. Drop the ball on any one nutrient and THAT will be the cause of less than optimal growth and yield for the plant as a whole.

Will be putting the theory to the test this season with 12 to 14 containers. Cannardlywait.

[elight]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Ahhhh. I get you now. I tried solo cups last year on some seedlings. Spent two whole days making all the holes in the bottom of the cups. I didn't do well with that method. I had problems with over watering using them. I like the Fafard potting mix, unfortunately they don't sell it around here anymore.

One day, I want to try an ET just to see how it does.

Recommendation for holes in solo cups is to use a drill. Stack them up upside down and then drill down as far as possible. Use a 1/4" bit. Makes quick work of it.

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[RayR]

Originally Posted by BajaMitch

FWIW, Tomato Tone has what I believe to be a better, more suitable N-P-K-Ca-S ratio compared to other similar ferts popularly used for container tomatoes. It's the closest that I have found to the optimum ratio that my research has shown. So far my ratio is a theoretical guess at this point, but I am pretty confident of it...theoretically. However, the TT ratio is a bit too strong on Ca and a little too strong on S, and, as far as the package indicates, lacks magnesium altogether...not good.

I make up for the excesses and deficiencies by combining TT with other ferts in a balanced way to attain the exact ratio I am targeting.

Calcium can be problematic with TT if your irrigation water contains significant amounts of Ca. My plumbed water will supply at least a third of all the calcium the plant needs. Also, I am conscious of the chemical affect of an imbalance of K, Ca, and Mg. The literature says that imbalances in those three nutrients can lead to lead to uptake inhibition and therefore a plant deficiency in the nutrient crowded out by too much of one of those three chemicals.

Lots of variables to watch out for. There is an accepted theory out there that says a tomato plant will thrive at its optimal best and will uptake the optimal amount of all nutrients when you supply exactly what the plant needs exactly when it needs it; nothing more, nothing less. Drop the ball on any one nutrient and THAT will be the cause of less than optimal growth and yield for the plant as a whole.

Will be putting the theory to the test this season with 12 to 14 containers. Cannardlywait.

TT does contain Magnesium, it contains 1% Mg, primarily from the Potassium Magnesium Sulfate.
I don't see how TT could be too strong on Ca considering the forms it is in. The Calcium Phosphate from the bone meal is insoluble and requires microbes to make the Ca and the P available to the plant. You can over apply a Calcium compound like Calcium Carbonate from lime, not because of too much Calcium but because the compound is a base and can raise your PH too high.
I think Calcium is probably the most underutilized nutrient even though it is a critical macronutrient, a plant like tomato will require more than double the amount of Ca than P and certainly far more than Mg or sulfate.

[Worth1]

""There is an accepted theory out there that says a tomato plant will thrive at its optimal best and will uptake the optimal amount of all nutrients when you supply exactly what the plant needs exactly when it needs it; nothing more, nothing less. Drop the ball on any one nutrient and THAT will be the cause of less than optimal growth and yield for the plant as a whole.""

I dont buy this for one minute and will never buy it.
There is no way I could have done this by accident.

Worth

[jillian]

Originally Posted by RayR

TT does contain Magnesium, it contains 1% Mg, primarily from the Potassium Magnesium Sulfate.
I don't see how TT could be too strong on Ca considering the forms it is in. The Calcium Phosphate from the bone meal is insoluble and requires microbes to make the Ca and the P available to the plant. You can over apply a Calcium compound like Calcium Carbonate from lime, not because of too much Calcium but because the compound is a base and can raise your PH too high.
I think Calcium is probably the most underutilized nutrient even though it is a critical macronutrient, a plant like tomato will require more than double the amount of Ca than P and certainly far more than Mg or sulfate.

I have always had great results with Espoma tomato tone, which became unavailable here so I used their garden tone with also great results. I mix some into the soil that I am potting up with then scratch in every few weeks. I do not want to hijack thread but RayR, could you answer a question for me? I have mixed up a 20 cu. ft amount of potting mix. At first the mix was 6.0 so I added some lime. Now it is 7.0. Is this okay? I read that most vegetables like an acidic soil. ***** I am tired. That pile of dirt is getting the best of me.

Also this is the first "batch". I grow mostly in containers so I need to be certain my ph is on target.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by jillian

I have always had great results with Espoma tomato tone, which became unavailable here so I used their garden tone with also great results. I mix some into the soil that I am potting up with then scratch in every few weeks. I do not want to hijack thread but RayR, could you answer a question for me? I have mixed up a 20 cu. ft amount of potting mix. At first the mix was 6.0 so I added some lime. Now it is 7.0. Is this okay? I read that most vegetables like an acidic soil. ***** I am tired. That pile of dirt is getting the best of me.

Also this is the first "batch". I grow mostly in containers so I need to be certain my ph is on target.

You would have been better off using plant tone it is what I use and in my opinion 6 would have been better.
Worth