Interested in Growing a Multiflora Dwarf?

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by korney19

Are you saying your crosses weren't homozygous and you are crossing heteros F4 x F1? Why didn't you start with something easier? I probably would have stabilized one or both first to cut down the variables.

You say that as if you think I plan things ahead of time…..

I was playing with my first crosses last year and also growing out the micro multiflora for ChrisK. I decided I wanted to see if I could come up with a larger fruited micro multiflora. I made crosses with the only large-fruited varieties I had available – the F1s. That was the origin of all of the crosses I’ve sent out as part of this thread.

I have since made numerous other crosses with the F5, F6 & F7 of the micro multiflora with many other varieties – full-size, dwarf and micro – some stable and some unstable. I have F1s of most of those different crosses growing this summer. I’d love to get more of them or their F2 seed into other growers hands and have them see what is there to be found in the dwarf – micro multiflora realm. That is the purpose of this thread.

In the meantime, I considered what possibilities are available given what I have so far. I decided to see if I could find a multiflora indeterminate variety with larger fruit and good flavor. That’s why I am growing out the full-sized F2s from that cross I referenced a few posts ago.

You tweaked my interest with your post about internodes and multiflora. This might give us an opportunity to learn something and maybe give the ‘experts’ something to ponder on and study further.

Besides, if you’re not looking for something specific, the instability makes it more interesting. It is absolutely mind-boggling to see the variety that comes from some of these crosses.

The most vigorous and wild-growing tomato plant I have ever grown is an F1 of a cross of the micro multiflora F6 (which is nearing stability) with Silvery Fir Tree. I assumed it would be something small because the mama in less than 16” in height and SFT has never grown much over 24” for me. Obviously, whatever gene keeps the micro small has nothing in common with the genes that keep SFT small since the F1 is goes completely nuts. I have never grown anything that grows faster and wilder that it did. And you should see the variety of leaf shapes on the F2s from that cross that I recently potted up.

I'll shut up. I'm rambling.....

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

I had 52 various micro's going but a drip system failure while on vacation led to seriuos losses and set backs. I had several small beefsteak tomatoes on a multiflora 13x-F3--2 RL but a dang rat got to all of them but 1. More pics will be coming of other cherry size micro multi flora's but for now here is the pic of the 1 that survived. It tasted close to your original micro multiflora you were working on for Chrisk but with a bit more acid bite. A real winner so far which makes me even more upset at the rat. It had a slight sunburn from this intense heat we are having. Anyway here it is.

Sorry to hear about your setback. Any chance you got any seeds from that one? The RRSU F3 you are growing out sure has a LOT of flavor. They are a little tart for my taste but are sure loaded with flavor and produce very well. I made a cross of it with the micro multiflora. That's one I'll only share with you or ChrisK if you're interested.

[heirloomtomaguy]

Originally Posted by dfollett

Sorry to hear about your setback. Any chance you got any seeds from that one? The RRSU F3 you are growing out sure has a LOT of flavor. They are a little tart for my taste but are sure loaded with flavor and produce very well. I made a cross of it with the micro multiflora. That's one I'll only share with you or ChrisK if you're interested.

That sounds like an offer i cant refuse Dan. I saved every seed in the little beefsteak but there were very few. Inwill send you half of whatever i have.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

That sounds like an offer i cant refuse Dan. I saved every seed in the little beefsteak but there were very few. Inwill send you half of whatever i have.

Make sure you keep enough to grow whatever you'd want to grow. Send a few only if you have plenty.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by dfollett

You say that as if you think I plan things ahead of time…..

I was playing with my first crosses last year and also growing out the micro multiflora for ChrisK. I decided I wanted to see if I could come up with a larger fruited micro multiflora. I made crosses with the only large-fruited varieties I had available – the F1s. That was the origin of all of the crosses I’ve sent out as part of this thread.

I have since made numerous other crosses with the F5, F6 & F7 of the micro multiflora with many other varieties – full-size, dwarf and micro – some stable and some unstable. I have F1s of most of those different crosses growing this summer. I’d love to get more of them or their F2 seed into other growers hands and have them see what is there to be found in the dwarf – micro multiflora realm. That is the purpose of this thread.

In the meantime, I considered what possibilities are available given what I have so far. I decided to see if I could find a multiflora indeterminate variety with larger fruit and good flavor. That’s why I am growing out the full-sized F2s from that cross I referenced a few posts ago.

You tweaked my interest with your post about internodes and multiflora. This might give us an opportunity to learn something and maybe give the ‘experts’ something to ponder on and study further.

Besides, if you’re not looking for something specific, the instability makes it more interesting. It is absolutely mind-boggling to see the variety that comes from some of these crosses.

The most vigorous and wild-growing tomato plant I have ever grown is an F1 of a cross of the micro multiflora F6 (which is nearing stability) with Silvery Fir Tree. I assumed it would be something small because the mama in less than 16” in height and SFT has never grown much over 24” for me. Obviously, whatever gene keeps the micro small has nothing in common with the genes that keep SFT small since the F1 is goes completely nuts. I have never grown anything that grows faster and wilder that it did. And you should see the variety of leaf shapes on the F2s from that cross that I recently potted up.

I'll shut up. I'm rambling.....

Have you tried crossings with New Big Dwarf (rugose pink, 6-16oz), Sophie's Choice (6-12oz dwarf), Red House Free Standing (PL dwarf), Lime Green Salad (GWR Dwarf 4-8oz), or Peachy Pear (MF dwarf w/peach gene), or Dwarf Variegated or, heaven forbid, Stick?

[jmsieglaff]

Originally Posted by jmsieglaff

So we have done a couple blind taste tests of the 5 11xF3 plants. All are rather tasty red cherry tomatoes. 1 has a bit thicker skin and slightly poorer flavor. 2 of the 5 routinely rate in the top 2. I'd say the best are 7.5 in taste. So Dan, others what do you think? Should I save seed, they are productive and tasty but not take my breath away WOW. I feel like I should save seed from one of them, but then I think I'd be better off trying more F3 seeds next year as I might land a WOW and at the very least get ones on par with what we've got this year since all 5 are tasty. I'm also doing 19xF1 this year and will want to allot as much container space to 19xF2. I appreciate any opinions, etc

Here's a shot of two different cut fruit.

[heirloomtomaguy]

Here are a few pics of some off of various plants. I especially like the look of the two pointed nipple fruits. I have only tasted 21x-F2-1 RL and i have to say that it was the sweetest cherry tomato i have yet to taste ever. Very delicious unique flavor of sweetness. Almost reminded me of cotton candy....almost. I will be tasting and getting pics of the interior's in the next day or so.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by jmsieglaff

Here's a shot of two different cut fruit.

That's not a valid comparison; you must cut it perpendicular to the locules to get a valid comparison. Matter of fact, I went as far as urging people selling seeds to never slice a tomato that way for photos as it's unreliable to get the exact cut again--worst odds as bad as 1 in 359...one pic could be through 2 locules 180 degrees apart, another can be between locule walls 180 degrees apart. It's the most common way of FALSELY making a tomato look meatier than it really is! Cutting through the equator shows the locules, how many, and seeds & gel. It's also the best way to extract seeds for fermentation.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by korney19

Have you tried crossings with New Big Dwarf (rugose pink, 6-16oz), Sophie's Choice (6-12oz dwarf), Red House Free Standing (PL dwarf), Lime Green Salad (GWR Dwarf 4-8oz), or Peachy Pear (MF dwarf w/peach gene), or Dwarf Variegated or, heaven forbid, Stick?

I wish I had thought to try New Big Dwarf. I haven't made crosses with any of the dwarf varieties you mention, but I do have a cross with Stick. Want to try the F1 to see what weirdness you get? That is one from which I just processed the F1 seed and for which I don't have any F1 growing yet.

I have crosses with 16 dwarf varieties including 10 from the Dwarf Project. For someone wanting to find a multiflora dwarf, they should make the search fairly easy. The F1 will be dwarf and 25% of the F2s should be multiflora. I have crosses with stripes, GWR, Red, Pink and yellow. They should make for some interesting F1s, F2s and F3s to share over the next few years. Should be fun.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by dfollett

I wish I had thought to try New Big Dwarf. I haven't made crosses with any of the dwarf varieties you mention, but I do have a cross with Stick. Want to try the F1 to see what weirdness you get? That is one from which I just processed the F1 seed and for which I don't have any F1 growing yet.

I have crosses with 16 dwarf varieties including 10 from the Dwarf Project. For someone wanting to find a multiflora dwarf, they should make the search fairly easy. The F1 will be dwarf and 25% of the F2s should be multiflora. I have crosses with stripes, GWR, Red, Pink and yellow. They should make for some interesting F1s, F2s and F3s to share over the next few years. Should be fun.

Sure! I grow Stick/cu 6 to 8 plants to a half 55-gallon cider vinegar [plastic] drum. What's the other parent or its features?

Is your Stick fruit light green at the green stages, or dark green? I have 2 different cu accessions but not sure which one should be called Stick. One has "typical" green, the other has very dark green fruit in the unripe stages...

Maybe I'll try a dwarf/MF cross once it cools down, I have 3 or 4 MF's growing now, plus NBD and Dwarf Variegated growing now. No Stick this year--only real oddity this year is Reisetomate.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by korney19

Sure! I grow Stick/cu 6 to 8 plants to a half 55-gallon cider vinegar [plastic] drum. What's the other parent or its features?

Is your Stick fruit light green at the green stages, or dark green? I have 2 different cu accessions but not sure which one should be called Stick. One has "typical" green, the other has very dark green fruit in the unripe stages...

Maybe I'll try a dwarf/MF cross once it cools down, I have 3 or 4 MF's growing now, plus NBD and Dwarf Variegated growing now. No Stick this year--only real oddity this year is Reisetomate.

Mark, which two accessions of Stick do you have since as far as I know there was the one and only original one,which I've grown.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Stick

Where does your 2nd one come from and how could it be different from the original, or is it?

For sure a novelty tomat variety,but IMO the small red fruits were useless.

Dan, why the cross with stick,just to see what you get,as in curiousity?

Carolyn

[jmsieglaff]

After a final blind taste test I've decided to save seeds from 11xF3 plant 2. It finished in the top 2 each time and took 1st twice. The flavor is quite sweet, just enough acid, nice rich tomato flavor. In the 7.5 taste with the best approaching the 8.0 mark. The plant is very productive, actually turned out to be the one with the "strongest" multiflora traits. These are the fruits I'm saving seed from.

[clkingtx]

I am sorry to say the 13x F3 plant that had such luscious fruit when in a teeny tiny pot didn't do so well when potted up in a larger grow bag. The plant is doing well, but the fruit is not as good. It is still good, but nothing spectacular. I am not sure why that is. I am going to experiment later this summer with careful deliberate water restriction, and see if that improves the flavor. This plant sent up some multiflora stems as soon as I repotted it, so hopefully it will have a lot more fruit coming on soon. I will keep updating, as good as the flavor was, it would be worth keeping it on the brink of dehydration if necessary! Also I was able to get quite a few seeds saved, so I will definitely be growing some of these next year.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Mark, which two accessions of Stick do you have since as far as I know there was the one and only original one,which I've grown.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Stick

Where does your 2nd one come from and how could it be different from the original, or is it?

For sure a novelty tomat variety,but IMO the small red fruits were useless.

Dan, why the cross with stick,just to see what you get,as in curiousity?

Carolyn

Carolyn, you asked me just about the same question last year. There are two cu gene accessions. One the fruits when green are the colors of most unripe green fruits, however the other one the green unripe fruits are very, very dark green. I don't remember which is which; I think one I got from David Pendergrass, possibly the darker one. I actually had 3 sources, and one source (C.M.R.) had both. I'm downstairs on an android tablet and can't get pics until I'm back on the i7 on the bed...

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by korney19

Sure! I grow Stick/cu 6 to 8 plants to a half 55-gallon cider vinegar [plastic] drum. What's the other parent or its features?

Is your Stick fruit light green at the green stages, or dark green? I have 2 different cu accessions but not sure which one should be called Stick. One has "typical" green, the other has very dark green fruit in the unripe stages...

Maybe I'll try a dwarf/MF cross once it cools down, I have 3 or 4 MF's growing now, plus NBD and Dwarf Variegated growing now. No Stick this year--only real oddity this year is Reisetomate.

The other parent is the (Red Robin X Rose Quartz Multiflora F6) that is the mama of most of the crosses I have made - and the mama (or papa) of of everything I have sent out seed for in this thread.

As to which Stick it is, it is - I know nothing about any of them. It is from seed I purchased from Tatiana last winter. I don't know anything more about it. i never even saw a fruit. I meant to grow one out this summer to see what the fruit was like, but I forgot to start one.

Carolyn,

To answer your question as to why I made the cross, Yes, just to see what I'd get - curiosity. I started with no ambitions of creating anything specific. (Although I have developed a few ambitions as I have considered possibilities after the fact - hence this thread) . I have just been opportunistic and made crosses with what I had available. I happen to have been growing out lots of the micro multifloras year round for the past two years. They have so many blossoms that even a klutz like me can can make a cross, destroy dozens of blossoms doing it and still have plants loaded with fruit to eat.

This past winter I was growing a dozen or so of the micro multiflora F6s and decided to make a bunch of crosses just because I could. I decided to try a few different ones. So, I purchased some seeds, potted them up into 4" cups then grew them under lights until they produced blossoms. I gathered pollen from the blossoms, made the crosses then tossed the plants because I didn't have room to grow them out. I never even saw unripe fruit from them.

I also have a cross with Fuzzy Wuzzy for the same reason. I started the F1s of those and Stick today. I assume the F1s will be normal. The fun will start with the F2s. If someone were interested in seeing some strange plants, I have F1s from these and lots of different crosses (and I'll have lots of F2s from many different crosses by the end of summer) I'd be willing to share. I can't possibly grow them all out.