ideas for preparing beds for next season

[pdxwindjammer]

Tania, your comment caught my attention. One thing that I would like clarification on is oats, buckwheat and mustard greens. I literally just got all my summer veggie beds cleared out of the peppers, tomato plants, etc. This morning we have frost. When would you plant those three things if the frost kills them?

As for winter rye, can that be planted after frost and still grow? When you cut it in the spring, do you leave the cuttings on the soil and just dig holes through the existing roots to plant tomatoes, peppers, squash, etc?

Here in Portland, I leave many of my plants in until threat of frost because some are still producing.

I used to have access to alpaca poop but my source moved 5 hours away.

[COMPOSTER]

Interesting comment on the winter rye. I cut mine close to the ground 2 or 3 times and it continues to grow. I will have to say that it is not fully developed when I cut it. Maybe 10-12 inches high. Not sure that it matters but mine grows very aggressive in the Spring after being cut.

Glenn

[ScottinAtlanta]

I am making a huge final 2013 batch of kudzu mulch and oak leaf compost, will let the pile heat for 6 weeks, then will spread it over the top of the tilled beds where it can decompose quietly for 14 weeks before March 2014 planting. I have had great luck with the kudzu compost this year - can go from oak leaves to fine black compost in 6 weeks with the super-nitrogen shredded kudzu.

I wonder why no one markets the kudzu mulch?

[COMPOSTER]

I know there is so much I don't know about soil that I am always running some kind of experiment. One of my experiments this year is more liberal use of mulches to try to mimic nature. Along those lines I read a thread by Durgan regarding mulching with wood chips. He turnrd me on the movie "Back to Eden" which I have watch 4 or 5 times. So, I am also experimenting on 5 beds, some new, some old, with ramial wood chip mulch from a local tree service.

Glenn

[Durgan]

My choice for a cover crop is red annual clover (http://www.covercrops.msu.edu/species/red.html). This is marginal for zone 5 since it usually gets killed in the Fall and one would like to rototill it under in he early spring. Also some times it is not Winter killed. If it survives the Winter, weed wacking is sufficient before rototilling. The clover fixes nitrogen nodules in the soil which is supposedly beneficial.

If a live cover is not possible then a good layer of any mulch is probably the next best thing. Without some cover the earthworms (which are probably highly desirable) do not favour the area.

Bare ground is not beneficial, for anything.

[nnjjohn]

I'm going to try a top crop next season,, think it is a little late to try growing in my beds.. the angle of sun and my hill does not offer much sun this time of year.. so this year , I decided going with other soil amendments (stable horse bedding manure/leaves and grass clippings

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I am making a huge final 2013 batch of kudzu mulch and oak leaf compost, will let the pile heat for 6 weeks, then will spread it over the top of the tilled beds where it can decompose quietly for 14 weeks before March 2014 planting. I have had great luck with the kudzu compost this year - can go from oak leaves to fine black compost in 6 weeks with the super-nitrogen shredded kudzu.

I wonder why no one markets the kudzu mulch?

I had to wiki "kudzu" I read about..it is a tree strangler plant!

[Durgan]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I am making a huge final 2013 batch of kudzu mulch and oak leaf compost, will let the pile heat for 6 weeks, then will spread it over the top of the tilled beds where it can decompose quietly for 14 weeks before March 2014 planting. I have had great luck with the kudzu compost this year - can go from oak leaves to fine black compost in 6 weeks with the super-nitrogen shredded kudzu.

I wonder why no one markets the kudzu mulch?

Apparently this strangler plant is a nightmare when it gets established in an area. I think I see it growing along the road in some areas.It is non native and appears to cover some bushes and trees. It is considered a noxious weed in the USA South.

[ScottinAtlanta]

All true, Durgan. All the more reason to harvest it and get some use out of it. There are at least 6 infested areas over the 10 miles between our county seat and my parent's home. Each infested area covers a few acres. I estimate there must be between 50-60 tons of plants in each infested area, and that is a conservative estimate. I can collect 200-300 pounds within a few feet of my car in about 20 minutes, with only a machete. For most of the growing season, there are no seeds. The seeds (in the shape of beans) emerge in Sept-Oct. I have mulched about 1000 pounds of it over two years, and have not had a single sprout from my compost or from my beds. Of course, I compost at fairly high heat, and one would want to ensure that the composting killed any propensity to propagate. We have the plant - why not use it?

I also want to note that I have served deep fried kudzu leaves - in a tempura batter - to guests several times, and they have a delicious bean flavor. Southerners are amazed when they hear they are eating kudzu, which is a detested plant. If you do this, be sure you pick the smaller leaves - no larger than your hand - and be sure you pick from an area that has not been sprayed. And wash them well - bugs love to hide on the underside of the large leaves.

[nnjjohn]

I filled thirty 5 gallon buckets of horse stable mix (straw wood chips manure) I got for free at a local stable today. about 2 to 5 inches over my empty beds.. will top that with the leaves once they start falling any day now.. it is peak here now in northern new jersey. very pretty colors,, good time to view the foliage before the winter months!

[amideutch]

Charles Wilber, author of "How to Grow World Record tomatoes", uses Kudzu for his compost and attributes it among other things to his success which was used for the most part on four tomato plants that produced 1,368 pounds of tomatoes.

The ingredients for the compost was shredded green kudzu, hay consisting of kudzu and sudex coarsely ground, manure, soil, granite dust or hardwood ashes and colloidal clay.

He further states gardeners that do not have access to kudzu can use alfalfa or soybeans in place of.

For "green manure" he states Hairy vetch and rye make the best green manure crops. He plants the rye in the fall and tills it into the soil 30 days prior to planting in the spring. As he rotates his growing beds he uses Hairy Vetch on those beds that have short season crops so as to have it established before winter sets in.

The book is a really good read and focuses on organic growing and feeding the soil and plants.

Ami

[Durgan]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Charles Wilber, author of "How to Grow World Record tomatoes", uses Kudzu for his compost and attributes it among other things to his success which was used for the most part on four tomato plants that produced 1,368 pounds of tomatoes.

The ingredients for the compost was shredded green kudzu, hay consisting of kudzu and sudex coarsely ground, manure, soil, granite dust or hardwood ashes and colloidal clay.

He further states gardeners that do not have access to kudzu can use alfalfa or soybeans in place of.

For "green manure" he states Hairy vetch and rye make the best green manure crops. He plants the rye in the fall and tills it into the soil 30 days prior to planting in the spring. As he rotates his growing beds he uses Hairy Vetch on those beds that have short season crops so as to have it established before winter sets in.

The book is a really good read and focuses on organic growing and feeding the soil and plants.

Ami

Mostly hype from where I sit.

[amideutch]

Mostly hype from where I sit.

Have you read the book or tried his methods?

[pdxwindjammer]

Curious as to where you sit, Durgan.

I find that info very fascinating! Thank you for sharing.

[Durgan]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Have you read the book or tried his methods?

I have been working on growing tomatoes for several years and trying various well thought out processes. I am cognizant of most things about growing tomatoes and find the lack of photographs sadly lacking in this fellows presentation. Most of the internet babble about the methods is pure hype of which I don't accept without strong evidence. Words are cheap and easy to produce and there is too much of this type of nonsense presented in garden forums. Everybody has a camera and successive photographs could be presented as real evidence of the process.

As an aside, the hype about UFO's suddenly disappeared with the advent of the video camera. Peculiar what?