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Old January 11, 2018   #46
Black Krim
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Originally Posted by BigVanVader View Post
I forgot to mention Joseph's tomatoes here. You should read up on how his short season led to him breeding short season cold hardy tomatoes. His seeds are here. http://garden.lofthouse.com/seed-list.phtml I'm growing Big Hill for sure this year and may be growing Ot'Jagodka and Fern as well.
Amazing man. His work is beneficial on many levels. His web page gave me LOTS to think about.....
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Old January 11, 2018   #47
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm going down the landrace rabbit hole big time this season. It just makes sense on so many levels. it's like a buffet of tomato genes, just pick the ones you want and you have a perfect tomato for your needs.
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Old January 11, 2018   #48
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Food security is one of my concerns. Why an early tomato is of interest to me. Tomatoes are the one food we, my family, eats the most. If the tomato plant just sits in the cold soil and does not produce fruit, then I have gained nothing and lost much in time , effort , seed and soil.
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Old January 11, 2018   #49
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Amazing man. His work is beneficial on many levels. His web page gave me LOTS to think about.....
Except as he is first to tell you, his tomatoes “taste terrible”
A direct quote unless something has changed?
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Old January 12, 2018   #50
sjamesNorway
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Except as he is first to tell you, his tomatoes “taste terrible”
A direct quote unless something has changed?
KarenO
I wondered about that, too. I seem to remember him writing that he doesn't like tomatoes, so all tomatoes taste terrible to him. In his website he writes that Big Hill "tastes great", and that Hillbilly is his "life-long favorite tasting tomato". There's some discrepancy going on here. And how would he successfully sell tomatoes at market, if they all taste terrible?

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Old January 12, 2018   #51
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I wondered about that, too. I seem to remember him writing that he doesn't like tomatoes, so all tomatoes taste terrible to him. In his website he writes that Big Hill "tastes great", and that Hillbilly is his "life-long favorite tasting tomato". There's some discrepancy going on here. And how would he successfully sell tomatoes at market, if they all taste terrible?

Steve
I guess he has a wife or similar which maybe writes those description.

If I would be selling tons of varieties it would be difficult to write descriptions, since it's unlikely I would like them all, so I can't just say bad things about them. 'decent setter, grassy offtaste, ★★★★ production, but we sell it anyway'.

Last edited by zipcode; January 12, 2018 at 07:21 AM.
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Old January 12, 2018   #52
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I think Joseph doesn't like red tomatoes very much. Yellow/orange he prefers, and so do I, so I'm thinking we have similar taste. I will only eat a red tomato if nothing else is available. I don't like most tomatoes myself, but others that try them love them. My sister loves Carolina Gold and Mountain Merit tomatoes. I'd just assume chew on shoe leather.
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Old January 12, 2018   #53
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Food security is one of my concerns. Why an early tomato is of interest to me. Tomatoes are the one food we, my family, eats the most. If the tomato plant just sits in the cold soil and does not produce fruit, then I have gained nothing and lost much in time , effort , seed and soil.
There are a huge variety of tomatoes to choose from that will produce fruit in cool weather. The larger issue will be to find the ones that produce fruit you enjoy for fresh eating.

As for cold soil, there are techniques to maximize your success at early planting. Any tomato will be stressed by transplanting into cold soil. Choose your transplant day when there are several warm days in a row, to avoid simultaneous cold stress and transplant stress. They'll be over it in a couple of days and better able to tolerate a cooler trend.
Use techniques to warm the soil. Black mulch, raised beds, water bottles are some techniques that will get it warmer and keep it warmer. If the soil is cold at the bottom of your planting hole, you can warm it with hot water. The heat will dissipate into the surrounding soil and raise the temperature overall. Warm soluble kelp solution is also a great way to water in your transplants.

That being said, you also want to minimize the humidity in your structure and how wet the soil is. It is better to err on the side of dry than wet especially when it's cold or going to be cold. So if water is used for warming or watering in, make sure it's not excess, and provide adequate ventilation until the humidity inside has equalized with the outside. If you see condensation inside on your plastic, your setup is too wet and needs to be vented asap. Condensation on the plants will promote foliage disease and also make them more susceptible to frost damage. And humidity can cause pollen to clump so that fruit don't form.

Heat in a hoop house/structure is also more of a fruit set issue than cold, assuming you choose cool weather varieties. Pollen becomes unviable over 95 F, and it's easy to reach those temperatures under plastic on a sunny day. So ventilation will be important, and vigilance as to when it should be opened or closed. The biggest challenge of a low hoop structure is the extremes of heat within and the need to ventilate it without losing all warmth advantages.
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Old January 12, 2018   #54
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You have hit on a number of problems. Many I have been mulling over.

A hoop house has limitations, especially the wide fluxuarion in temps day to night. A larger structure likely to have a narrower swing.
Collecting 1 gal milk jugs to fill with water. Saw one source that spray-painted black to increase the temp.

Grow bags or more likely large pots. Which leads me to smaller mature plant, like dwarfs.

Still see black plastic as valuable under the pots.

I have thought about making a second floor over the ducks. Meaning when ducks are shoo'd into their house for the night, they could provide some level of added heat for plants set on platform above.......

lots of room for error for sure. lol
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Old January 12, 2018   #55
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Quote - Originally Posted by BigVanVader: I think Joseph doesn't like red tomatoes very much. Yellow/orange he prefers, and so do I, so I'm thinking we have similar taste. I will only eat a red tomato if nothing else is available. I don't like most tomatoes myself, but others that try them love them. My sister loves Carolina Gold and Mountain Merit tomatoes. I'd just assume chew on shoe leather.

Here's a direct quote from a thread started by Joseph:

Confession: My Tomatoes Taste Horrid
At the farmer's market today a lady was giving me a grilling about my tomatoes.
"What variety are these?"
"Joseph's Earliest Landrace, a variety specific to my farm that I have spent 6 years developing."
"What do they taste like?"
"They taste horrid. You can try one if you like."
"These are lovely! Tart and sweet, full of flavor!"
"Really?"
"Yup, don't you like tomatoes?"
"Um.... Err... Uh... You're right, I think that tomatoes are a horrid fruit."

There I have finally admitted it. I don't like tomatoes. To confirm I went to the garden and tasted about 50 unique varieties. Every one of them was dreadful. Some less dreadful than others, but ugh!!!

Last edited by sjamesNorway; January 12, 2018 at 10:38 AM.
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Old January 12, 2018   #56
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lol I remember that. I think he was just being cheeky.
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Old January 12, 2018   #57
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Just had to make an initial comment ...to this thread.....

1) I agree Yes ...for Matina/Tamina ...a good one for me but it is not the earliest .

2) In Past coastal cool "marginal " above freezing (0 C) I used to start
outside protected about May 2 and some years we would luck out and get a
"Maugust " and catch some early degree growing days ...that may not be recouped in the coastal cool "summer".
Amazingly under such "marginal cool temp times ...varieties like Cosmonaut Volkov and Sasha's Altai and Black Prince ..set fruit early for me ...

....even earlier than stupicke and matina etc.

3) also I like Silvery fir as a "bomb proof " producer no matter how foul the season .


4) Siberia - the rugose leaf dwarf (is a great one later ...but stays in the fall when temps drop .)

5) I really REALLY liked ...Puck ...and think it was actually early and a super producer in a 7 gallon container.....it surely is a candidate for an early crop and second crop production .

6) I am trying various new ones for various reasons this year one I am trying is
Tarasenko 6.
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Old January 12, 2018   #58
Black Krim
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Thank you for chiming in---completely changed my mind about SIlvery Fir ( It had been removed from my list.)

It is now top of the list. Short enough to put in a pot AND fit under 4 ft tunnel.
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Old January 13, 2018   #59
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Thank you for chiming in---completely changed my mind about SIlvery Fir ( It had been removed from my list.)

It is now top of the list. Short enough to put in a pot AND fit under 4 ft tunnel.
some have called Silvery fir a "spitter" but it truly is adaptable..

I have grown it even in 1 gallon but of course it will use every inch of a

larger pot even 20 gallon ....I have closed the loop with this one under grow lights and have successfully produced fruit in cold unheated circumstance ..

with lights ...of course it is not a "Brandywine "...but it is a must grow in my garden as it is consistently "bomb proof " and adaptable ..no matter how

bad the cool coastal year .
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Old January 13, 2018   #60
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Default Try chibikko to partner with gold nugget

Yes also to early gold nugget...

but try chibikko also for suprising early and compact ...

nice gold with a red ...etc.
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