Mycorrhizae and fertilizer?

[Duh_Vinci]

Sorry, not trying to beat the subject to no end, but...

I swear, that I've read somewhere here that application of fertilizer with high phosphorus or potassium (for the life of me can't remember which one) decrease the colony of mycorrhizae?

Reason for asking, I have my simple set fertilizer routine, at planting time a handful of Tomato tone 3-4-6, handful of bone meal 6-12-0 into the planting hole along with a hand full of garden lime.

Later on in the season, I do monthly foliar feeding as a mix of fish base Aggrand 4-3-3 with Aggrand kelp/potash 0-0-8 and Aggrand liquid bone meal 0-12-0

Based on all my standard feeding regiment, would I have to apply MycoGrow and Biotamax as a soil drench more often to keep the population of those "good" microbes where it needs to be or...?

This is my first time I'll be using MycoGrow, Biotamax and Actinovate as a root dip at planting time...

Thank in advance for your feedback!

Regards,
D

[creister]

D,

I would just eliminate the bone meal and liquid bone meal products. You want to keep your phosphorus around 4, lower is okay. The Mycho's make it easier for roots to utilize what is in the soil. I am sure others with more knowledege will give you more info.

[TZ-OH6]

I copied that article but it's on my broken computer. I remember it because I looked it up twice. IIRC, myco-free plants did well in high phos soil, while the myco inoculated plants did better in low phos soil.


This might be the article.

http://www.mendeley.com/research/myc...ze-phosphorus/


This is an interesting quote form another study.

"At high plant phosphorus (P) status, the mycorrhizal Pi uptake pathway was almost completely repressed and the mycorrhiza-inducible Pi transporter genes were down-regulated"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19140941


also

"It seems also that under medium soil P levels, as that of the 335 experimental condition, P fertilization has a very limited effect on tomato growth and yield. Instead the presence of the mycorrhizal infection improves P availability, but, in order to avoid negative effect on mycorrhizal effectiveness, P fertilization should not exceed the rate of 60 kg·ha-1 P2O5."

from here
http://www.reforest.com/desk/questio...ion+and+Tomato

I just I found this which seems to say the opposite, but looking at the results, the nonmyco plants grown with high soil phosphorus had better results than myco plants grown under low soil phos. They didn't do myco plants with high soil phos.

http://afrsweb.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles...logist2002.pdf


The point of using myco inoculant on tomatoes may be mute if organic fields experience phosphous buildup due to repeated inputs of manures etc to provide nitrogen.

[amideutch]

Here is a link to the thread where we discussed the subject of mycorrhiza and phosphorus. Ami

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...rus+Mycorrhiza

[Duh_Vinci]

Thank you all very much for your time and research on this subject, much appreciated indeed!

Between last night and this morning reading through the posted links and threads (some a bit too complex, some are simple enough to understand). To keep it simple, in my mind, based on the response to Ami's questions to Thomas G. that Ami posted in another thread:

Originally Posted by Thomas G. at T&J Enterprises

Let’s say you had a fertilizer that had high levels of phosphate and it was all available. It’s still possible to use that kind of fertilizer. If we keep the available phosphate at 74 lbs per acre, it doesn’t matter what kind of fertilizer you use. What matters is how much you use. Let’s say the N-P-K of a fertilizer was 28-14-14 and the phosphate was all available and it came in 50 lb bags. The number of pounds per acre we would put down of that fertilizer is 74 / .14 = 528.6 lbs. This would limit the soluble phosphorous to 74 lbs / acre, which is ideal for mycorrhiza fungi. That would be .0121 lbs per square foot (.2 oz) or 12.13 lbs per thousand square feet. As long as you apply the fertilizer properly, according to the 37 ppm limit per acre on available phosphate, you won’t have any complaints from the mycorrhiza fungi. I think you can get up as high as 50 ppm (100 lbs) per acre of available phosphate without any problems.

I think I would indeed skip the bone meal all together this time (first time in long time). I will however still use my monthly foliar applications of Aggrand products, well, again, after reading up in the "numbers", it seems that the effect on the mycorrhezae would be minimal, since it is not a soil drench. But I will reduce to a half dose of the typical application of 0-12-0 component. Will see what this season brings!

Part of the enjoyment in the gardening is the experiments, so looking forward to 2011 garden season to start!

Again, many thanks to all for your time, indeed appreciate it!!!

Regards,
D

[fortyonenorth]

If you haven't had a soil test lately, it might be a good time to do so. Without knowing the proportions of minerals currently in your soil, you're really just shooting in the dark. Phosphorus binds to the soil and has a tendency to build up - especially if you've been applying it annually. Whereas most other minerals (e.g. calcium, magnesium, potassium, etc.) will leach from the soil over time - how quickly, depends on the structure of your soil.

[Aphid]

doesn't tomato tone already contain bio-tone (with these microbes)?

I use garden-tone that also contains bio-tone... do I still need to be dipping the root ball ?
I also apply compost/vermicompost tea to the plants and soil thruout the season.

am I still lacking micorrizae?

[Duh_Vinci]

Forty - I do, every year with the basic kit, and in the lab for pH. It usually stays pretty even across the board. In the fall, I normally apply well composted cow manure from the friends farm, and spring, I add home made compost to each planting hole.

Aphid - both, GT and TT indeed have mycorrhezae in it, but diversity and population is far less than mycorrhezae specific products mentioned. And since few spots in my garden have some wilt problems, I'm hoping that by adding those additional microbes and fingi to extend the life of those plants as long as I can.

Regards,
D

[Aphid]

thanks Duh vinci that's good info ,, I had a terrible problem with some type of blight last year I wiped out my crop(2 raised beds).. I moved all my tomatoes out of the infected raised beds and started a new one along with some earth tainers this year.

However I still want to grow cucumber and peppers in the affected beds.. I have been solorizing the soil in them as best as possible and need to renew the soil .. I added a ton of compost tea to them last week . along with additional fresh compost 2 months ago.