The Urban Farm

beefyboy · January 8, 2014

As far as container growing, the Urban farm is really nice for bigger plants such as tomatoes and eggplant, and also excellent for anything that grows long vines as long as you have a support system in place. I recently contacted Ed, the inventor of this system and asked him to help me dial in the system for the desired effect of sweetening up my tomatoes. I wanted to decrease the watering from 6 times a day to 2 times a day. He spent some time on a Sunday over the phone to reset my timer and give me some tips which is a testament in itself on how serious he takes growing tomatoes in this system. I have grown for decades in earth boxes here in Florida, and they have made growing here much more rewarding, but nothing like the growth that this system is capable of.
I saw how many on tomatoville are now using his fertilizers with great results, so it makes me feel good that I told him about this site when I first bought my Urban farm 20 just a little over a year ago.
Another note: We just had a major cold from move in on Monday, and it dropped to 38 with a windchill of 26 in my area. I only had a 80% shade cloth to block the Northerly wind but absolutely no damage to these plants. Last night hit 40 with howling winds out of the Northeast and found only one plant that had some damaged leaves. On the more protected side of my house where my earth boxes are, the damage to those tomato plants was much more, but all survived.
I have a question for Ed ?? What is the highest you have pushed your nutrient levels for your tomato plants? I am running now at 1970 ppm as of tonight and plan on increasing about 100-150 ppm a day until I see a negative. From what I am reading and saw, it seems in the winter months you can push much harder than in the heat of summer. Also I have read a max of 3,500 ppm for tomato plants, so I am way under that as of now. Any thoughts or idea's are greatly appreciated!

Chuck

luigiwu · January 8, 2014

Sorry, but can you clarify or provide a link for this "urban farm?" I only do container gardening so naturally I'm curious!

beefyboy · January 8, 2014

yes and sorry for that. It is theurbanfarm.com

Urbanfarmer · January 8, 2014

Hi Chuck.......nice to see your plants survived. Ours got frozen out. It was time to start over anyway. Our tomato plants were nearly a year old.

First, we have to make sure we're on the same page with the meter. You said you're reading in ppms. We only measure in EC to avoid conversion confusion. Most ppm meters use a 0.5 conversion factor, meaning......divide the EC reading by half and you get your ppms. Some meters convert to 0.7. Hence the potential for confusion.

We calibrate to a standard 1413 uS/cm baseline solution. After that we then run our nutrient tank at an average of 2200 uS/cm. In ppms this would be 1100 ppm if your meter converts at 0.5. This doesn't include your tap contribution.

Running at 1970 ppm doesn't mean anything unless we know where you are calibrated. If you're using the calibration solution we sent you, the calibration is 2030 , not 1413. That's another story, but you end up at the same place.

Short story is......if correctly calibrated, and with a ppm meter with a 0.5 CF, you should be at 1100 ppms before your tap water is added to it. You can see why we stick to EC.

So, there are 2 ways to strengthen flavor. Each increases the nutrient concentration in the root zone. Cut back on irrigations, which raises nutrient concentration by removing more water, or run normal irrigations at higher levels. Don't do both.

I would prefer to keep normal irrigations and run higher, up to 3500 uS/cm. But work your way up. Tomatoes can take some pretty high numbers. You'll likely see some leaf tip burn and minor leaf curling, but unless you see serious side effects, you can run higher.

We've never had to run high, but it looks like you want intense flavors, so you'll have to try running higher. But first, you have to be sure of your calibration.

beefyboy · January 9, 2014

Thanks Ed! I will call tomorrow and see where it was set at when the hydro store guy calibrated it for me and get back to you. As far as cutting back on water, here is why I wanted to. The tomatoes are a little soft inside with larger than normal size. The color is a little pale, not as deep and rich looking. I check today as a goose creek is ripening and the color has changed, and is now getting a deeper reddish pink. Tonight I brought it up to 2300 ppm before I read your words of advice. Until you know my meter calibration, that means nothing to you, as of now. Will check in tomorrow!

Thanks

beefyboy · January 14, 2014

Calibration on the ppm meter was done with 1382 solution at the hydro store. He also has a 1000 there. I have a good checking system here since I have my sweet peas growing at the same time in other buckets. I have 2 buckets planted with mammoth sugar peas and at 2,960-3,000 ppm, they are not burning up yet, which is very surprising to me now. All tomatoes look very good now and seem to love the food. I had another one yesterday which was a little over a lb, and a c
Crnkovic Yugoslavian. It was not sweet, but at least it improved from the last one harvested and was acceptable. This tomato is always on the soft side so I expected that.
Here is a theory to ponder Ed and I always like your feedback and knowledge. I remember growing up as a kid selling fruit for a school fund raising projects. We would get grapefruit and oranges to sell and they were grown in Texas and I did notice all the time how dry the fruit was inside and how you could segment it very easily and eat without much juice running out or none at all for that matter. Now growing fruit in Florida for myself, the fruit is much higher in juice content. With high humidity here, I think the fruit stays juicier and plump. Another observation is my mother raises orchids and has not watered them for quite awhile lately since the humidity has kept that in check for her because it has been a very humid winter so far. My observation is, that it may be (PART) of the reason for the lack of sweetness and overall flavor in our tomato crops that so many northerners have brought up when moving here and tasting for themselves. Obviously the variet plays a huge part also as we all know. I know that my tomatoes taste much different when comparing my fall crop to my late spring crop since the humidity pattern is quite different and usually much drier in the fall and my tomatoes are much sweeter with improved flavor. There are two hobby growers here that water only once a day at this time of year for there hydro crops but I do not know there lighting situation or there system that they are using. In late March or early April, there would certainly be problems I would think with only watering once a day, but now I think it can possibly work while being on top of the situation and having the 40% shade cloth that I have.
After the peas are done, I am filling the rest of buckets with tomatoes so the crop is all the same. I also want to run some test crops with a few buckets only and try a test run with a combo of (super large) chunky perlite and rock wool, say maybe 50/50, and see how that works. I have also found that growing in jiffy seven 50 mm size gives me a much better plant start than in rock wool or the rapid rooter plugs, and my plants are nearly double the size at setting out. I do not strip them to bare root either, I keep them undisturbed and just place in the rock wool and the netting holds the peat in place and does not wash away. I did this with this crop and have the rapid rooters going also with no noticeable difference except for the plants starting off healthier and bigger in the Jiffy starts. After time the rapid rooters caught up and were just as strong but took a few more weeks.
Can you run the system for draining water out of the buckets in case of, lets say a heavy rain occurs? Is that just a manual over ride?

Urbanfarmer · January 15, 2014

Chuck.....this is the problem with one person measuring in ppm and the other in EC: there is uncertainty that we're on the same page. To be sure, both need to be using one or the other. Our baseline was established using EC and 1413 uS/cm calibration solution. Once calibrated, we knew that the nutrient concentration of 2000-2400 was good. Mostly by neglect, we've ventured up as far as 3600, but not for long.

I can't say that we've ever noticed much difference. We've grown fantastic tomatoes, and then some dogs too. I always figured it was due to differences between plants and varieties.

You're in pursuit of deep, connoisseur tomatoes. You may have to experiment out on the edges to find what you're looking for. You might even need a formula that is even heavier on the potassium than our Texas Tomato Food, which is already high. High potassium is well known to be a key factor in sweetness and firmness in tomatoes.

The only downside to that is if you are mix-cropping peas, beans, greens, etc in the same system. The high K isn't the best for them.

We could mix you up 4 gallons of K-boosted TTF if you wanted to try that sometime. But try the high ppms first. Know what the results of that experiment are first, before moving on to the next one.

Good hunting!

January 8, 2014	#1
beefyboy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pt. Charlotte fl Posts: 329	The Urban Farm As far as container growing, the Urban farm is really nice for bigger plants such as tomatoes and eggplant, and also excellent for anything that grows long vines as long as you have a support system in place. I recently contacted Ed, the inventor of this system and asked him to help me dial in the system for the desired effect of sweetening up my tomatoes. I wanted to decrease the watering from 6 times a day to 2 times a day. He spent some time on a Sunday over the phone to reset my timer and give me some tips which is a testament in itself on how serious he takes growing tomatoes in this system. I have grown for decades in earth boxes here in Florida, and they have made growing here much more rewarding, but nothing like the growth that this system is capable of. I saw how many on tomatoville are now using his fertilizers with great results, so it makes me feel good that I told him about this site when I first bought my Urban farm 20 just a little over a year ago. Another note: We just had a major cold from move in on Monday, and it dropped to 38 with a windchill of 26 in my area. I only had a 80% shade cloth to block the Northerly wind but absolutely no damage to these plants. Last night hit 40 with howling winds out of the Northeast and found only one plant that had some damaged leaves. On the more protected side of my house where my earth boxes are, the damage to those tomato plants was much more, but all survived. I have a question for Ed ?? What is the highest you have pushed your nutrient levels for your tomato plants? I am running now at 1970 ppm as of tonight and plan on increasing about 100-150 ppm a day until I see a negative. From what I am reading and saw, it seems in the winter months you can push much harder than in the heat of summer. Also I have read a max of 3,500 ppm for tomato plants, so I am way under that as of now. Any thoughts or idea's are greatly appreciated! Chuck

January 8, 2014	#4
Urbanfarmer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Freeport, Texas Posts: 134	Hi Chuck.......nice to see your plants survived. Ours got frozen out. It was time to start over anyway. Our tomato plants were nearly a year old. First, we have to make sure we're on the same page with the meter. You said you're reading in ppms. We only measure in EC to avoid conversion confusion. Most ppm meters use a 0.5 conversion factor, meaning......divide the EC reading by half and you get your ppms. Some meters convert to 0.7. Hence the potential for confusion. We calibrate to a standard 1413 uS/cm baseline solution. After that we then run our nutrient tank at an average of 2200 uS/cm. In ppms this would be 1100 ppm if your meter converts at 0.5. This doesn't include your tap contribution. Running at 1970 ppm doesn't mean anything unless we know where you are calibrated. If you're using the calibration solution we sent you, the calibration is 2030 , not 1413. That's another story, but you end up at the same place. Short story is......if correctly calibrated, and with a ppm meter with a 0.5 CF, you should be at 1100 ppms before your tap water is added to it. You can see why we stick to EC. So, there are 2 ways to strengthen flavor. Each increases the nutrient concentration in the root zone. Cut back on irrigations, which raises nutrient concentration by removing more water, or run normal irrigations at higher levels. Don't do both. I would prefer to keep normal irrigations and run higher, up to 3500 uS/cm. But work your way up. Tomatoes can take some pretty high numbers. You'll likely see some leaf tip burn and minor leaf curling, but unless you see serious side effects, you can run higher. We've never had to run high, but it looks like you want intense flavors, so you'll have to try running higher. But first, you have to be sure of your calibration. __________________ theurbanfarm.com

January 15, 2014	#7
Urbanfarmer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Freeport, Texas Posts: 134	Chuck.....this is the problem with one person measuring in ppm and the other in EC: there is uncertainty that we're on the same page. To be sure, both need to be using one or the other. Our baseline was established using EC and 1413 uS/cm calibration solution. Once calibrated, we knew that the nutrient concentration of 2000-2400 was good. Mostly by neglect, we've ventured up as far as 3600, but not for long. I can't say that we've ever noticed much difference. We've grown fantastic tomatoes, and then some dogs too. I always figured it was due to differences between plants and varieties. You're in pursuit of deep, connoisseur tomatoes. You may have to experiment out on the edges to find what you're looking for. You might even need a formula that is even heavier on the potassium than our Texas Tomato Food, which is already high. High potassium is well known to be a key factor in sweetness and firmness in tomatoes. The only downside to that is if you are mix-cropping peas, beans, greens, etc in the same system. The high K isn't the best for them. We could mix you up 4 gallons of K-boosted TTF if you wanted to try that sometime. But try the high ppms first. Know what the results of that experiment are first, before moving on to the next one. Good hunting! __________________ theurbanfarm.com

January 8, 2014	#2
luigiwu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: ny Posts: 1,219	Sorry, but can you clarify or provide a link for this "urban farm?" I only do container gardening so naturally I'm curious!

January 9, 2014	#5
beefyboy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pt. Charlotte fl Posts: 329	Thanks Ed! I will call tomorrow and see where it was set at when the hydro store guy calibrated it for me and get back to you. As far as cutting back on water, here is why I wanted to. The tomatoes are a little soft inside with larger than normal size. The color is a little pale, not as deep and rich looking. I check today as a goose creek is ripening and the color has changed, and is now getting a deeper reddish pink. Tonight I brought it up to 2300 ppm before I read your words of advice. Until you know my meter calibration, that means nothing to you, as of now. Will check in tomorrow! Thanks

January 14, 2014	#6
beefyboy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pt. Charlotte fl Posts: 329	Calibration on the ppm meter was done with 1382 solution at the hydro store. He also has a 1000 there. I have a good checking system here since I have my sweet peas growing at the same time in other buckets. I have 2 buckets planted with mammoth sugar peas and at 2,960-3,000 ppm, they are not burning up yet, which is very surprising to me now. All tomatoes look very good now and seem to love the food. I had another one yesterday which was a little over a lb, and a c Crnkovic Yugoslavian. It was not sweet, but at least it improved from the last one harvested and was acceptable. This tomato is always on the soft side so I expected that. Here is a theory to ponder Ed and I always like your feedback and knowledge. I remember growing up as a kid selling fruit for a school fund raising projects. We would get grapefruit and oranges to sell and they were grown in Texas and I did notice all the time how dry the fruit was inside and how you could segment it very easily and eat without much juice running out or none at all for that matter. Now growing fruit in Florida for myself, the fruit is much higher in juice content. With high humidity here, I think the fruit stays juicier and plump. Another observation is my mother raises orchids and has not watered them for quite awhile lately since the humidity has kept that in check for her because it has been a very humid winter so far. My observation is, that it may be (PART) of the reason for the lack of sweetness and overall flavor in our tomato crops that so many northerners have brought up when moving here and tasting for themselves. Obviously the variet plays a huge part also as we all know. I know that my tomatoes taste much different when comparing my fall crop to my late spring crop since the humidity pattern is quite different and usually much drier in the fall and my tomatoes are much sweeter with improved flavor. There are two hobby growers here that water only once a day at this time of year for there hydro crops but I do not know there lighting situation or there system that they are using. In late March or early April, there would certainly be problems I would think with only watering once a day, but now I think it can possibly work while being on top of the situation and having the 40% shade cloth that I have. After the peas are done, I am filling the rest of buckets with tomatoes so the crop is all the same. I also want to run some test crops with a few buckets only and try a test run with a combo of (super large) chunky perlite and rock wool, say maybe 50/50, and see how that works. I have also found that growing in jiffy seven 50 mm size gives me a much better plant start than in rock wool or the rapid rooter plugs, and my plants are nearly double the size at setting out. I do not strip them to bare root either, I keep them undisturbed and just place in the rock wool and the netting holds the peat in place and does not wash away. I did this with this crop and have the rapid rooters going also with no noticeable difference except for the plants starting off healthier and bigger in the Jiffy starts. After time the rapid rooters caught up and were just as strong but took a few more weeks. Can you run the system for draining water out of the buckets in case of, lets say a heavy rain occurs? Is that just a manual over ride?