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Old February 24, 2017   #241
Starlight
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Originally Posted by Darren Abbey View Post
I've already crossed one of the M2s with a separate line I have that has large purple flowers. My goals for it are to breed up a larger-flowered type for floral display, as well as just playing around with the interesting F2s that will be produced from the divergent parental genetics.


I also want to cross an M2 to a line of small-sweet-brown-upright fruited bells, with the goals of increasing the fruit size but otherwise maintain the overall form.

I'd never heard of Putzagold. It sounds pretty.


The variegation in Fish is reportedly very heritable, but I haven't been able to find much detailed information. If you crossed it with a brown jalapeno-type, you should be able to get a plant in the F2s that has fruit which ripen red with brown stripes (or brown with red stripes). It would be a different aesthetic than the Enjoya pepper, but it'd have some of the novelty.

I have Fish pepper, as well as some nice jalapeno types, and some brown types. I can't seem to find any images of a true-brown jalapeno, so that combination may not be available. Getting all of the traits piled into one plant would take a few years... we may have something to keep discussing that would be fitting for the name of this thread.


Don't I know it. I'm in Minnesota. I had to pull them out of my garden and put them under lights to get them to ripen. It would help to get them started much sooner than I did, so I hope to have better luck this year. It would also help to keep the rabbits off of them, which may be trickier.
Sounds like some interesting projects.

Darren.... Have you seen this brown Jalapeno. It's the only brown skinned that I have seen offered on line? It's called Farmer's Jalapeno aka Potato Skinned Jalapeno. It does look like potato skin for sure. Something different looking.

http://www.tradewindsfruit.com/farme...o-pepper-seeds

I wonder what would happen if you collected pollen from several different types of plants, mixed it all together and then dabbed the mother plant? Is such a thing even possible with pepper pollen?

Anybody happen to know how long pepper pollen is viable and does it have to be refrigerated or just stored in fridge?



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Originally Posted by ginger2778 View Post
There is a Pusztagold Pepper.
Thanks so much Marsha! That's how the seed had come labled to me without the "s". Explains why I couldn't find any info on it. Gonna get it changed in my notes and also on Patti's database. Glad you knew its correct name.
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Old February 24, 2017   #242
Fred Hempel
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Excellent post, showing the layering of the meristem and explaining why surface traits are in many cases (and probably in this case) not passed on through seed (which forms largely through the 2nd layer of the meristem -- i.e., the 2nd layer of the meristem gives rise to seeds and is thus responsible for genetic transmission).

In the case of the peppers in question, they are likely caused by a mutation that was limited to the surface layer of the meristem in the plant on which they first were found.

One additional thing to take into account is also that cell divisions in the meristem are such that only rarely do cells from one layer "invade" another layer (most cell divisions in the meristem are within the layers). However, there are rare times when cells from one layer of the meristem do penetrate other layers.

This means that it is possible that if one grows out thousands (or tens of thousands) of seeds from these peppers they might find a plant with striped peppers, although it would be very rare -- because it would indicate a very rare "layer invasion" event.

Once a pepper like this is found, it might be genetically transmissible thereafter.

Finding a genetically transmissable striped pepper would only occur, however, if the mutation causing it is not one that causes problems when it is in the other layers of the meristem, and thus in the other tissues that they give rise to. Sometimes mutations that cause interesting surface patterns in ornamental plants do cause problems when they are in other layers.

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I've written a new post over at my blog about these peppers.

There are some photos and thoughts haven't shared here.

http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot....ya-pepper.html
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Old February 24, 2017   #243
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With regard to Fish Pepper -- the striping in that pepper is genetically heritable. In a production situation I would say that there do seem to be "costs" to having the "striping" trait in all layers of meristems. Plant uniformity is not great, and under some conditions it can be very variable (plant size, vigor etc.).

That said, these issues are no big deal for most gardeners who are not interested in consistently producing a certain # of lbs per acre.
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Old February 24, 2017   #244
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I have grown Fish peppers several times and they are beautiful plants and definitely striped peppers.
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Old February 25, 2017   #245
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Quote:
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With regard to Fish Pepper -- the striping in that pepper is genetically heritable. In a production situation I would say that there do seem to be "costs" to having the "striping" trait in all layers of meristems. Plant uniformity is not great, and under some conditions it can be very variable (plant size, vigor etc.).

That said, these issues are no big deal for most gardeners who are not interested in consistently producing a certain # of lbs per acre.

Thanks for adding your knowledge too Fred. Every bit of knowledge helps. Especially when you know nothing about hybridizing peppers, but willing to learn and experiment.


Your right about having to plant hundreds of seeds just for observation. I'm more familiar with the hybridization of Daylilies. Those folks will plant hundreds and thousands of seeds and cull almost as many only keeping those that show any signs of what they are looking for in breeding.

This kinda dumb question, but in Daylilies alot of times we look for specific colors down in the throat to cross with. Like using green throats with pure white flowers will imprint color pattern easier.

I noticed that upon looking close, peppers have different types of petal formations and colors. Hadn't thought to look at throats. Could the flower color and throat too possibly have anything to do with helping to get crosses you want or does that not have any impact on crosses at all? Was just wondering if using a white colored pepper to cross with would make any kind of difference on getting stripes. Ya I ask dumb questions.
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Old February 25, 2017   #246
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There are no dumb questions, except one "can I ask a question?".
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Old February 25, 2017   #247
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quote: all the seeds are attached directly to yellow tissue.

If any striped peppers come on the market here, I was planning to buy just one for the seeds. Now I will buy a number of them and cut them so I can see if there are seeds attached to red tissue as well as yellow.

Has anyone seen them for sale on the west coast? We do get peppers imported from Spain, so it is possible.
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Old February 27, 2017   #248
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My original 2 plants are full of buds again.

Here was the typical size of the peppers:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Enjoya Pepper Fist size.jpg (184.5 KB, 166 views)
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Old February 27, 2017   #249
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My original 2 plants are full of buds again.

Here was the typical size of the peppers:
WOW!
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Old February 27, 2017   #250
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Second a big WOW!

That's a beautiful pepper Barb even without any stripes. Almost too pretty to eat. : ) I do have a bottle of Ranch dressing that would go good with some pepper strips from your fruit. : )

Those of you folks with the Enjoya pepper plants already producing are you planning on overwintering them? Maybe be a bit early to ask, but not sure about other folks growing seasons.
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Old February 27, 2017   #251
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Barb, how is the taste? I started 2 seeds couple of days ago.
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Old February 27, 2017   #252
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Barb, you have a gift for gardening. I have never had a bell pepper look that nicr.
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Old February 28, 2017   #253
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My enjoya-seed grown plants produced smaller bell peppers than that, but they were still far larger than anything else I'd grown.

After they were ripe, I diced them and topped a pizza with them. They were spectacular after cooking.
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Old March 25, 2017   #254
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For folks interested in reading about the sweet variegated pepper (Fish x Lipstick) that Cornell's working on -- here's a link to a slideshow presentation they used for one of their talks -- slides about the Variegated = #15-23 -- https://www.slideshare.net/acornorga...ng-ii-mazourek

(There's other interesting pepper stuff in the slideshow too, including about Habanada pepper, and breeding an early red bell pepper for northern growers.)
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Old March 30, 2017   #255
Darren Abbey
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For folks interested in reading about the sweet variegated pepper (Fish x Lipstick) that Cornell's working on -- here's a link to a slideshow presentation they used for one of their talks -- slides about the Variegated = #15-23 -- https://www.slideshare.net/acornorga...ng-ii-mazourek

(There's other interesting pepper stuff in the slideshow too, including about Habanada pepper, and breeding an early red bell pepper for northern growers.)
That is a nice presentation. The striped pepper I'm thinking of would be similar, but would have stripes that persist into the completely ripe fruit. When unripe, the stripes would be green. When ripe, they would be brown. I hadn't decided if I wanted it to be a hot pepper or not, but I do like the idea of a fancy Jalapeno being the final result.
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