How do I know if the deed is done??

[Bobcat]

Okay, first, my apologies if this is an easily researched answer. I have looked, tho. Also sorry if its a dumb one.

But you don't know till you know.... so I am wondering how someone knows if they have crossed a tomato successfully. I mean, you try to pollinate the flower, but the flower could already be pollinated- right? Or you could fail and it could pollinate later. So if pollination occurs there are really three possibilities- two of which don't lead to your cross.....

So when the tomatoes form, how do you know to save and grow out those seeds versus trying again?

Thanks!!!!

[Tom Wagner]

Okay, first, my apologies if this is an easily researched answer.

Bobcat,

I can't accept your apologies, because one, it is not easily researched and 2, how do you Google out an answer?

I have looked, tho. Also sorry if its a dumb one.

Oh, yeah, it is a dumb one, because we all start out dumber than dumb cane crawlin' in smart weed! Why ask a question about something if we already know everything about crossing effects and results?

But you don't know till you know.... so I am wondering how someone knows if they have crossed a tomato successfully.

We are all don't know types
'til we try right now,
do the kinda know how,
remember the know-how,
wait for the "Wow, a fruit shows,"
if it doesn't take, don't have a cow,
just say "Whoa,"
and start over now,
when the fruit ripens just how,
save the seed ya know,
to dry the seed, blow,
next year the seed you sow,
to see if the sprouts show,
check summer's fruit to see if they look different somehow,
if both parents show, ho-ho,
but if the daddy did a no-show, oh, no!
take a bite with your supper's chow,
if you start singing the lyrics now,
Giddy up oom poppa omm poppa mow mow,
you're a winner, take a bow!

I mean, you try to pollinate the flower, but the flower could already be pollinated- right?

The idea is to pollinate the stigma before it selfed or an insect buzzed it.

Or you could fail and it could pollinate later.

Pollinate it again a day or two later just to be sure. Try to totally chicken fry steak it with pollen like you would with flour.

So if pollination occurs there are really three possibilities- two of which don't lead to your cross.....

I thought there was only two possibilities., no, you're right.....you're either a dumb crosser, a smart crosser, or a cross dresser. Expect to be a cross crosser until you become a happy crosser!

So when the tomatoes form, how do you know to save and grow out those seeds versus trying again?

I string tag 'em, depending if I cross the entire cluster, or just a single flower. The tag goes just behind the fruit on the stem or pedicel. I usually sow my suspected hybrid seed next to both of the parental types and compare. If you don't know what to look for, ask somebody who cares.

Tom Wagner

[vegomatic]

I'm also trying crosses for the first time this year. Right now, I'm looking for signs of success in pollination. Just in case one or the other parent was not ready, I've revisited all of them with fresh male donors. Wild guess is half of them took, but I see some signs of bruising.

This year's fruit will look like the mother. We won't know till next year what might happen, with individual seeds within this year's fruit showing the typical statistical variations. This will be our F1 seed, and it will have the largest variation.

So, we'll need to plant the F1's next season, and save seed from those fruits. When the plants appear and bear fruit, we'll select those plants that most closely exhibit the traits we are selecting for. This will be our F2 selection. We might choose several variants, adding to the complexity.

We'll also need to plant the parent plants for comparison, unless we have a good memory and record of what it was in the parents that we hope to combine in the offspring.

For me, that's Sungold and Cherokee Purple, both of which I grow every year anyway, so no problem there. And the differences between them are pretty much obvious to anyone, so I should be able to select sucessful crosses from next year's fruit.

Well, that's the plan! Other than reading about it and doing some Sungold growouts that past few years, this emasculating of blossoms and cross pollinating thing is pretty much all new territory to me!

-Ed

[pooklette]

Last year was my first attempt at creating a cross. I did a lot like Tom mentioned. I coated the stigma with as much pollen as I possibly could and gave it one more go for good measure the next day. I also tied bright yarn around the potentially crossed flowers. If a tomato formed in that spot, I knew the flower had been pollinated.

Since I'm pretty inexperienced at crossing, I couldn't be sure that the flower didn't self-pollinate though. I saved seed from all marked tomatoes to see what would show up in the F1 generation. In my case, the following would've indicated a cross:

• I tried to pollinate the flower of a PL variety with pollen from a RL variety. If the cross took, the F1 seedling would be RL, even though the seeds were saved from a mater on a PL plant.
• I tried pollinating a dwarf variety's flower with the pollen of a huge indet. variety. If the dwarf's flower self-pollinated, saved seed from it would result in cute little dwarf plants. If the cross took, the saved seed should not result in a dwarf plant.
• I tried to pollinate the flower of a yellow variety with pollen from one of my favorite pinks. If the cross took, saved seed should result in red fruits. If not, saved seed would result in yellow fruits.

Watching the F1 results so far this year, I know for a fact that two of the crosses took. I suspect that's the best people like us (those who are new to crossing) can do in the beginning.

[Bobcat]

Wow, awesome info everyone! Thanks! That helps a lot. Your still left with planting a lot of seed, tho, eh? Well, thats ok. I happen to know someone who likes tomatoes!

I am thinking of going with a RL cherry (small wild type, a few varieties to choose from) and a large red PL like or BW.

How does that sound? I'm very excited!

[vegomatic]

Yeah, I'm wondering what the cross between Sungold, an orange small fruit and Cherokee Purple, a larger dark-colored fruit will look like.

I also crossed Sungold with Allred, a new vriety for me this year. So far, most of my attempts seem to have failed in aborted blossoms. Perhaps two or three are hanging in there.

I think I know what I did wrong, so I'll try again. I didn't notice any free-floating pollen, so the males may not have been ready. There were lots of bruises on the female bud, so I was little rough with them. Lastly, I covered them with small zipock bags that let moisture collect and maybe heat as well.

By avoiding those mistakes, I hope to have better luck next try.

-Ed

[domoarimato]

Tom... Stick to hybridizing because your rhymes are too funny to hope for a profitable career as a rap artist! LOVE IT! Keep up the good work, friend!