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Old April 22, 2018   #31
carolyn137
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Originally Posted by KarenO View Post
I would certainly isolate your diseased tomatoes, if you intend to keep them for whatever reason, well away from your healthy ones. I still say the disease is fungal in nature.
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Yes, I do see you are still saying it is fungal.

I said to Banadoura :

(Originally I said I had an alternative suggestion but you said,at that time you'd solved the problem.

My suggestion has to do with what's called aberrant Early Blight.Do you remember when I asked if any of the affected seedlings were hearts, and you said yes?

Would you like to hear more, since I think, I hope, I still have those links somewhere.)

Karen, how familiar are you with aberrant Early Blight, and I ask since it has an incomplete genome.

Now that I think about this a bit more,it was for someone else and I did a long post and put a link to Dr.Tom Zitter at Cornell who has a worldwide reputation re tomato diseases.

I just looked in my faves and the links are not there,maybe I Googled him,maybe I should do a search for him here at Tville.

And maybe I should get off this computer and see what Martha, who is one of two local ladies who help me out here at home has packed for lunch and supper for me.

Carolyn
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Old April 22, 2018   #32
KarenO
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I tried. Carry on then best wishes.
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Old April 22, 2018   #33
bower
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I agree it's absolutely fungal... looks awful. I don't know anything about aberrant early blight but it could make sense since early blight typically affects the lower leaves first.

Just a few thoughts about tomatoes and their lower leaves. At some point in the season the plant decides that those low leaves are not useful any more - not getting enough light; not close enough to the fruiting action; - and the plant decides to scavenge the nutrients that can be moved from old leaves to other leaves that are getting more sun. If there's no disease and no susceptibility to disease, the lower leaves just yellow and fall off, but more usually, the leaves will develop whatever disease that plant happens to be susceptible to or is available in the environment to infect the dying leaf. It's as if the plant had withdrawn immune support from the leaf while sucking away whatever nutrients can be moved... and this is where disease happens.

So from what you said about improving when you go outdoors, I think part of the problem is that the light is not penetrating to those lower leaves. Secondly I would doubt that overfertilizing is the problem, because a plant with nitrogen to spare doesn't need to scavenge from old leaves. They will keep em green even in the shade if they're not short of any nutrients.

So it seems that there's a combination of environmental and nutritional factors plus some fungal thing that maybe came with the potting mix.. Crowding creates damp areas low in the seedling canopy, and it's enough for a mildew or other fungal disease to set into the leaves that are being sacrificed anyway with not enough light....

JMO.

Hope the weather gets good enough for you guys to plant out soon.
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Old April 22, 2018   #34
Banadoura
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@Carolyn, so you've been through this, hence your bingo on aberrant Early Blight

If that's the case, is this from the potting mix? Can I treat it? Why would the plants "heal" when they get transplanted outside, because of the sun? is it from bunching together 20 plants ? Sorry too many questions trying to understand.

What can i do to avoid this ? Starting seeds earlier won't give me any advantages because they will barely survive until transplant.
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Old April 22, 2018   #35
Banadoura
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@labradors2 the potting mix straight from the bag was moist, no doubt about that.
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Old April 22, 2018   #36
Banadoura
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@bower we got 15 degrees today, so took those little ones for their first sortie in the sun!! Hopefully this helps as they see the sun more often as temps improve
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Old April 22, 2018   #37
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I didn't have it last year, but they were planted in individual cups and pots from the start, so my guess is that they were too close together. Mine can be planted out this week, so I'm not too worried about mine. I'm going to toss that one from the photos though. I let that one go to see what would happen.
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Old April 22, 2018   #38
Banadoura
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Originally Posted by bad.kelpie View Post
I didn't have it last year, but they were planted in individual cups and pots from the start, so my guess is that they were too close together. Mine can be planted out this week, so I'm not too worried about mine. I'm going to toss that one from the photos though. I let that one go to see what would happen.
i am at least 1 month away from transplanting outside....it looks like i will be buying plants this year...all the work and excitement in vain...
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Old April 22, 2018   #39
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Oh no Bandura

I just had another thought. Since you had this problem last year, it would be wise to wash all your containers in a bleach solution before you use them again.

You could always start some seeds now - unless you've lost your nerve after all the devastation.

Good luck!
Linda
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Old April 22, 2018   #40
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Well...

I think the important thing is to pinch off those bad lower leaves and carefully discard in the garbage, I mean not for compost and not near your plants. As long as the stems are good and just the lower leaves affected they can survive.

If you can spread them out, that should help. Take them outdoors when you can... As Carolyn said, her seedlings were just fine after planting out - minus the nasty leaves. Another thought, can you spread them out in a window where they will get real daylight? I set my lights up in a window and put the plants on the windowledge, and that is my all time best spot for tomatoes. A little natural light goes a long way...

15 C is great!! Will you really have to wait a whole month.
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Old April 22, 2018   #41
Banadoura
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Originally Posted by Labradors2 View Post
Oh no Bandura

I just had another thought. Since you had this problem last year, it would be wise to wash all your containers in a bleach solution before you use them again.

You could always start some seeds now - unless you've lost your nerve after all the devastation.

Good luck!
Linda
last year i washed all my containers and used the anti-bacterial wipe prior to planting. probably the bunching with no circulation contributed to this.

this year i washed all containers with hot water prior to usage. I still have a wave of seeds breaking out, these should survive until transplant. Sadly my plan of eating tomatoes in early July is pretty much dead.
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Old April 22, 2018   #42
Banadoura
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Originally Posted by bower View Post
Well...

I think the important thing is to pinch off those bad lower leaves and carefully discard in the garbage, I mean not for compost and not near your plants. As long as the stems are good and just the lower leaves affected they can survive.

If you can spread them out, that should help. Take them outdoors when you can... As Carolyn said, her seedlings were just fine after planting out - minus the nasty leaves. Another thought, can you spread them out in a window where they will get real daylight? I set my lights up in a window and put the plants on the windowledge, and that is my all time best spot for tomatoes. A little natural light goes a long way...

15 C is great!! Will you really have to wait a whole month.
Not a lot of space for spreading them around since I have 2x3ft lights for 20+ plants At this point, I accept that only a certain % will survive long enough for transplant.

Last year it was only possible to transplant starting May 28....
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Old April 22, 2018   #43
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Hi Bandura,
Below is a link to Cornell Vegetable MD. When the web page comes up start scrolling down and look at the pictures. http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...omLeafKey.html
I'll be back in a little while with a few questions.
Dutch
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Old April 22, 2018   #44
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Another Cornell link to check out.
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...omato_List.htm
Dutch
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Old April 22, 2018   #45
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Aberrant means deviating from the ordinary or 'accepted normal'.
Early Blight is fungal.

So I'm thinking what Carolyn is saying is that it could be early blight not acting ordinarily.
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