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General discussion regarding the techniques and methods used to successfully grow tomato plants in containers.

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Old April 16, 2014   #1
aimeruni
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Default help with fertilizers!

I posted this in soil building initially cause I thought it would be the best place for it. I am reposting it here because this mix is used in container gardening; unfortunately I didn't realize there was a subforum for container gardening on this forum until after I posted it in the soil building forum.


I make my own soilless mix; I know it's not technically soil, but I figured this was the best place to post this, as my question is about something going into the mix I make.

The mix I make is listed below; it's a large batch, and each lg. batch makes 30-35 gallons.

2-3 cubic feet pine bark fines/pine bark mulch
5 gallons spaghnum peat moss
5 gallons perlite

The 'recipe' also says 2 cups of slow release (a.k.a. time release fertilizer).
Normally I mix in Osmocote; however for my peppers and eggplants, this fertilizer is too much for them...I get huge plants and no fruit.

I want to mix in a granular time-release fertilizer, but will this work with a container gardening mix?

The two I've found are dynamite (which is balanced and it's for veggies and flowers) and Tomato Tone. Are these time/slow release? Would they work for container gardening? Could I just mix them directly into the soil when I make my mix?

Below are links of what the fertilizers I'm considering using look like...

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/dy...Fa5DMgodRyIACA

http://www.amleo.com/product.aspx?p=...Fe87MgodVxgA-w

I would prefer not to do surface fertilizing; I would prefer to just mix the fertilizer into the soil when I mix it...it will just make things simpler and easier.
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Old April 16, 2014   #2
mdvpc
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Tomato tone is somewhat slow release, but you need to add more at flowering, etc. Some folks here don't like the new Tomato Tone-I do. I am growing now in some raised beds with it, some kelp and Azomite, and my plants are doing great-one of them already has set fruit.

If you are going to mix, what I did was put a 6-1-1 ratio-Tomato Tone-Kelp-Azomite.
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Old April 16, 2014   #3
aimeruni
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One question; did you add the kelp and azomite in addition to the tomato tone when you mixed it in with your soil? How much kelp and azomite should I add per large batch (one lg. batch makes 30-35 gallons). Normally it calls for 2 cups of slow release fertilizer. Should I do 2 cups of tomato tone for the fertilizer and then other measurements (whatever you recommend) for the azomite and kelp?


Will the addition of the kelp and azomite make the mix too rich? I really don't want to go too heavy with fertilizing for peppers and eggplants this year. I did that last year and ended up with huge plants but little to no fruit. At the same time, I want the fertilizer to meet the nutrient needs of the peppers/eggplants but again without making it too 'heavy/rich' with nutrients (for the reasons explained previously).
Also where do you get kelp for fertilizer?

Last edited by aimeruni; April 16, 2014 at 08:29 PM.
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Old April 16, 2014   #4
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A very dear friend of mine by the name of Darrell Merril aka in Tulsa OK as the Tomato Man shared his organic recipe that works in both beds and pots.

1 cup Blood Meal
1 cup of used Coffee Grounds.
1 cup feather Meal
3 cups Bone Meal
3 cups Green Sand
1/2 cup Epsom Salt
10 Dried Banana peels crushed, or substitute with 1 cup Rock Phosphate
20 crushed Calcium Tablets

Add a 1/4 cup to each planting hole or potted plant.

Another great tip he gave me was every two weeks water with Alfalfa or Compost tea.

Last edited by dereckbc; April 16, 2014 at 11:11 PM.
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Old April 17, 2014   #5
mdvpc
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The problem is, your frets will be eventually washed out of the container when you water. Osmocoate breaks down very slowly, so their action would last longer-but I don't know what formulations they have.

The Tomato Man's formula, 1/4 cup, would not last for a season by itself in a container. And the green sand and banana peels and calcium tablets, I think would take too long to start their action.

So, if you are going to grow in containers, I believe you cannot only mix your fert at the beginning, and leave it at that.

To answer your specific question, I mixed the kelp, azomite and Tomato Tone at plant out. Azomite is for micronutrients, the kelp I used was Espoma and is very low in npk. The tomato tone is 3-4-6. Using these three will not result in huge plants with no fruit. There isn't enough nitrogen to do that.
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Old April 17, 2014   #6
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Is sounds like you might want to consider self watering containers.
I originally was using regular containers and fertilizing them with Foliage pro per directions, mixed in with hand watering. This worked but I like easy, but only as long as easy is effective.

In SWC gardening your fertilize by putting in a strip of fertilizer about 3 inches deep. It amazingly lasts the season. I did a test of planting one regular container and one SWC and the SWC was noticeably the better way to go.

The fertilizer I was using was Lilly Miller Ultragreen 10 10 10 slow release. I can't find it anymore but there are alternatives.
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Old April 17, 2014   #7
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Vigoro 3.5 lb. Tomato and Vegetable Garden Plant Food Plus Calcium at Home Depot would be an option for a non-organic slow release fertilizer.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-3-...specifications
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Old April 17, 2014   #8
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For container grown mators the best option is a liquid fert at half strength every time you water. Soiless potting mixes do not retain nutrients and purge quickly when watered.

Some things you can mix in the soils are soybean and cotton seed meals for slow release nitrogen, but it will not likely last all season.
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Old April 17, 2014   #9
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Normally I mix in Osmocote; however for my peppers and eggplants, this fertilizer is too much for them...I get huge plants and no fruit.

Which Osmocote are you using? There is one with a higher nitrogen content and one with even NPK numbers. There is also a mini-prill that I have not yet tried. I can't find it for sale in small quantities.
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Old April 17, 2014   #10
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I've been using that same soil mix recipe you are using for several years and always added 2 cups Osmocote plus 15-9-12 and 2 cups Tomatotone to the soil mix. Then I'd add Tomatotone to the top of the pot once a month with Foliage Pro 9-3-6 liquid fertilizer in water every couple weeks. My tomatoes did great and so did my peppers and eggplants. I've found all solanaceous veggies in containers need a lot of fertilizer. Too much nitrogen can be a problem, but I never experienced that. My neighbor who added a lot of composted horse manure to his garden had huge plants and few fruits.

Which Osmocote did you use? Only the Plus version had micronutrients, and it's been discontinued. Tomato tone has the calcium you need, but no other trace elements. I wouldn't use the Dynamite formula you chose. I've switched to Dynamite select all purpose 15-5-9 since Osmocote is unavailable. They also make a special tomato fertilizer that would probably be better for veggies than the one you chose. See:
http://www.seedranch.com/Dynamite-Al...-organic-7.htm
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Old April 17, 2014   #11
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Tomato Tone, the new one, does have micronutrients, but they don't publish the formulation. Since it has Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized Poultry Manure, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and Gypsum, it probably has the full range of micronutrients.
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Old April 19, 2014   #12
aimeruni
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Okay I have two questions...

The first one is for mdvpc.

The 'base measurement' for time-release fertilizer for my recipe (for a lg. batch like the one I posted) is 2 cups. Is this the measurement I should use with the formula you recommended to me? If so, then I have another question; you said the ratio is 6-1-1.
If I use 2 cups, then what would the ratio of 6-1-1- be converted to cups (how many ounces/cups are in the 6, and how much is the ounce/cup measurement for the 1 ratio). Sorry I'm not very good with math, and I suck with proportions.

If I use your formula, can I just mix it directly into my soil mix when I make it up and will it last the whole season?

Ohio fem, the question I have for you is, is the dynamite you recommended time release, and can it just be stirred into my soil mix when I make it, and will it still feed the plants?
Will it feed them the whole season? My growing season is short, only 120 days.
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Old April 19, 2014   #13
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From mdvlc-You can mix it up when you are mixing your soiless mix, but it will not last the whole season-you are going to be washing out nutrients every time you water-the water will run out the bottom of your container and with it some nutrients. So your nutrients will be diluted every time you water.

So, if you for instance, use 3 cups of Tomato Tone, you would use 1/2 cup of Espoma kelp and 1/2 cup of Azomite. If you want to go that route, then I would suggest you get some Texas Tomato Food from our member that posts here, and use it as a soil drench or foliar every week or two, starting 2 weeks after you plant out.

Or you can supplement with some Tomato Tone every 2-4 weeks, as per their instructions.

I have used Tomato Tone/ Azomite/Kelp with a soil drench/foliar supplement many times with container growing and its effective. Remember, you are not growing in the ground, where nutrients don't leach out-its a different animal, and you cannot fertilize like it is in the ground growing.
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Old April 20, 2014   #14
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I would live to make that homemade fertilizer but I'm at a loss for source of materials. Where do you buy feather meal?
I searched high and low one year for soybean meal and the only way to get it was to have a feedstore special order for me.
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Old April 20, 2014   #15
ohiofem
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Default Does Tomato-Tone contain micronutrients?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdvpc View Post
Tomato Tone, the new one, does have micronutrients, but they don't publish the formulation. Since it has Hydrolyzed Feather Meal, Pasteurized Poultry Manure, Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Greensand, Humates, Sulfate of Potash, and Gypsum, it probably has the full range of micronutrients.
By law, fertilizers sold in the U.S. must include micronutrients on their labels if they make any claims about them. TT's old formula listed micronutrients, but the new one does not. Check out this report from the Washington State Department of Agriculture:

http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilize...spx?pname=4962

Ameruni: You may prefer not to feed your containers during the season, but they prefer to be fed regularly. You said your peppers and eggplants didn't produce fruits when you fed them Osmocote. Which formula did you use? Maybe they didn't produce because they didn't get enough fertilizer when they needed it.
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