Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.
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#1 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Portugal
Posts: 4
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A few questions for the more experienced breeders: if you want to increase the speed of your breeding programme, can you do a cultivation in summer outside and winter in heated greenhouse? and thus capture 2 seasons in a year?
The thing I am most interested in is whether selection in the greenhouse will have undesired side effects: such as unintentionally selecting for different temperature tolerance. I know from the Netherlands that they do winter cultivation with lights and heat and it never reaches the quality of the summer crop, but does it influence selection significantly? I am located at latitude 39,9248, which might have an influence on winter sun hours. Does anyone here do winter cultivations in a greenhouse for their breeding? |
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#2 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 3,148
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AKMark is in Alaska and breeds his own tomatoes. He grows most of his tomatoes in a greenhouse and also has some outdoors. Why not check with him if he does not find this thread on his own.
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#3 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 241
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How big a greenhouse do you have? How many seg's are you thinking of growing?
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#4 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wasilla Alaska
Posts: 2,010
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I can easily do two generations per year, and three if I send seed to someone who can grow in the winter. We do look for traits such as cold tolerance, production, and early fruit set. The beauty of a GH is we can tailor the environment, I have never got accidental cross pollination either.
I am so done by October I would never do any winter crops, too cold to heat our GH's up here, other places further south I would do it. Piece of cake. |
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#5 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 568
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if you have access to a greenhouse, two generations/yr is easy, three is possible. If you are advancing generations on early filial generations (i.e. F2-F4), you will need to be careful to advance multiple progeny per generation to manage "genetic drift", unless you are prepared to accept that risk, such as with a single seed decent strategy. When I employ a 2/3 generation/yr strategy to fine tune F5-F7 lines, I normally go with just a couple of progeny per line, and confirm uniformity. There is still some risk, but I believe it is properly balanced with the goal of "fixing"/stabilizing the inbred genotype.
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#6 | ||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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Next year I'll probably be selecting and growing micro-sized tomato plants in my basement too.
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http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com Last edited by Darren Abbey; March 30, 2017 at 01:26 AM. |
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#7 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Portugal
Posts: 4
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Thanks to all others for the very informative replies, we are simply going to give it a try ![]() |
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#8 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,940
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Let us know how it goes for you! Good luck!
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#9 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 19
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Hi, can you explain the concept of genetic drift a bit more? Not sure I'm following the risk...
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#10 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 568
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Genetic drift is the inadvertent loss of genetic variation due to small sample size. For example in a F2 generation derived from a F1 of dis-similar parents - there will be abundant genetic variation among F2 family members, each carrying a different combination of traits from the F1 parents. If you can only grow out 2-3 F2 individuals, you have a very small sample of the potential gene/trait combinations available - and have a high risk of not capturing the ideal combination you are looking for.
Last edited by frogsleap farm; April 30, 2017 at 01:49 PM. Reason: typo |
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#11 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 19
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Interesting - thanks for the explanation!
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#12 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Honey Brook, PA Zone 6b
Posts: 399
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#13 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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You only have to save seeds from one plant each generation, if you choose wisely which plant to save seeds from. I was growing out of one batch of seeds (F3s?) for one of my projects for several years (at about 4 plants a year) until I found a plant with better fruit last year. I'll probably be growing out of the seeds I saved from that plant for the next several years as well. I still have those older generations of seeds in storage if I later decide this lineage isn't turning out how I thought it might.
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#14 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5,931
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KarenO |
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#15 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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That would come down to experiment. It could be you've finally recovered an interesting set of double-recessives that were hiding in previous generations... or you've got an unexpected new cross in the mix. In the first case, I'd expect it to be pretty far along the line towards being stable already and the next generation should be much like it. (It is definitely possible to get strange things appearing in later generations, it is just increasingly unlikely with increasing generations.) In the second case, the next generation would again appear to have all sorts of things going. They would essentially be F2s and the interesting plant would have been a new ~F1.
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