Dwarf varieties in 5 gal SWCs, South Florida

[Imthechuck]

Plants look great!

I'm growing only one dwarf called red heart

I'm not far south from you in gardens

[kunosoura]

Originally Posted by Imthechuck

Plants look great!

I'm growing only one dwarf called red heart

I'm not far south from you in gardens

Greetings, thanks for commenting. Let me know how Red Heart turns out. I'd love to try out some hearts the next time around.

[kunosoura]

Took a few photos on Oct. 18. Just now getting around to sharing them - I was traveling for most of October. I have more photos that I took this weekend that are more interesting (need some advice on some pest and possible disease issues), but I figured I might as well share these since I bothered to take them. Fun to document the progress.

Iditarod Red is trucking along. Foliage looks a little more "normal" - less curled down compared to a few weeks prior. Whatever was affecting the foliage, the plant seems to be outgrowing it. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? The only ideas I've heard so far are from Pecker, who thinks there may be too much moisture. I might try to reduce hydrophilicity of my growth media a hair next year... maybe. I think everyone else seems happy so if that really is the issue, it could be an Iditarod Red thing.

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Wherokowhai looking good. Great looking foliage.

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Same for Dwarf Emerald Giant

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Tasmanian Chocolate is very dense!

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Dwarf Kelly Green is strong and stout, with some nice looking vines, good foliage, nice blossoms forming.

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Extreme Bush looks a little alarming. MORE ON THAT IN THE NEXT UPDATE. The bottom sets of leaves are curling badly, and the newer leaves seem to be only minimally affected, if at all. This one is worrying me. To add insult to injury, an "incident" led to one of Extreme Bush's vines being snapped off. Quite unfortunate.

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Perth Pride looking good.

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Rosella Purple is still one of my favorite plants. Vigorous, lots of blossoms forming.

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Up to this point fruit set has been so-so, as night time temps are still on the high side. I'm a little surprised I've gotten this much! Will probably delay planting seeds a couple of a weeks next year. But it is worth noting that Extreme Bush seems to be setting fruit quite well despite the heat.



Bonus picture of my two helpers:

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[jillian]

Outstanding! I am looking forward to growing several dwarfs next season. I had that same exact leaf curl on some of my plants this year, never figured out what caused it. It did not affect production and none of my plants were diseased even up til pulling them end of season.

Love the kitties!

[kunosoura]

I'll start with some good news - we have harvested some fruit in the past week! We have gotten two Extreme Bush tomatoes and two Iditarod Reds. I didn't think to take pictures at the time, but I will do so once the others start producing as well. I found the Extreme Bush to be better, flavor wise. I prefer it slightly underripe, where it has a nice acidity with some strong citrusy notes followed by deeper tomatoey tones. I was pleasantly surprised - none of the reviews I saw of this one indicated that it would be this good. Due to its flavor, earliness, and strong fruit set in this heat it will likely return. Need to figure out what is plaguing it though... We found the Iditarod Red to be disappointingly bland. This makes me wonder more about the possibility of it being overwatered, as previously discussed.

In other news the plants have really taken off. And boy are they drinking a lot of water! I used to have to only water every 3-4 days... now it HAS to be every day. I also had to put in some serious work supporting them when I got back into town this weekend. Labor of love.

Wherokowhai is doing well. Plant is still healthy, it has a couple of vines. Some fruit set, though temps are probably still on the high side.

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Dwarf Emerald Giant also looking good. It also is setting some fruit, though as you can see in the second photo below I am still dropping a lot of blossoms.

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Tasmanian Chocolate is rolling along. Vigorous plant with lots of good looking blossoms. HOWEVER, I am noticing some problems on the lowest foliage. First the big picture:

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And a closer look at the problem foliage is below. Some leaf curling and some dark spots centered within the veins in the leaves. Does anyone have any ideas? I just now referred to the Haifa tomato nutrition PDF and it indicates that these spots could be indicative of a manganese deficiency. It also says that leaf curl can show up as boron or copper deficiencies. I'm thinking I'll try adding some of all three to see if it helps. Could it be a disease or an insect problem instead? I will say that I just this weekend noticed a whitefly infestation (more on that below)... could they be responsible for this?

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Moving on, Dwarf Kelly Green is looking good. Nice growth and some fruit set.

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Rosella Purple is also looking strong. Seeing some fruit set and a ridiculous number of blossoms. I estimate there to be over 100.

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More to come in the post immediately following.

[kunosoura]

Continue from above:

Iditarod Red's new growth is still looking good, but its lower foliage continues to worsen. Now seeing some discoloration.

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Perth Pride looks fine, no problems.

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Extreme Bush looks awful! I segregated it.

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Zoom-in of leaf shows similar discoloration as seen on the Tasmanian Chocolate. Also seeing signs of what I think are the whiteflies.

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Finally, a shot of seven of the plants looking mostly happy.

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With respect to my problems:

Whiteflies - I saw these babies flying around in my plants, and I have seen evidence of them on the leaves. I have an order of ladybugs being delivered Wednesday. I went to Home Depot to look for yellow sticky traps but they didn't have any. I figure I'll use the ladies to get a handle on the current infestation and then order some sticky traps to use as preventatives. The Floridans thread says that the Seabright Labs are the lizard safe traps... Does this approach sound right?

Leaf curl - This is getting rather extreme on the Extreme Bush plant. Will first check pH to be sure that this isn't inhibiting micro uptake. If that's OK then I'm thinking about supplementing all plants with some water-soluble micronutrients (Cu, B, Mn, probably throw in some Fe as well) to see if this helps. Could this be due to Whitefly stress?

Discoloration - I'm hoping the micronutrients could help here. I don't have much experience with diseases, but I'll do some digging here to see if I can pinpoint any possible culprits. I'm thinking I should be applying the Daconil though, in spite of the problems I had with it previously.

Regarding my current care routine, the Pro Mix was amended with Tomato Tone at planting. Otherwise the plants have been getting regular water and weekly 15-15-15, MgSO4, calcium ammonium nitrate, and K2SO4. I have been slowly stepping up the dose each week, with the current does being 1/4 tsp of each. When I water the plants I make sure to run a decent amount out of the overfill holes to keep salt buildup down.

As always, any help you all can give is MOST appreciated. Thank you so much.

[kunosoura]

Originally Posted by jillian

Outstanding! I am looking forward to growing several dwarfs next season. I had that same exact leaf curl on some of my plants this year, never figured out what caused it. It did not affect production and none of my plants were diseased even up til pulling them end of season.

Love the kitties!

Thanks Jillian. Would love to nail down this leaf curl thing, as it has gotten much worse.

The kitties are always up for a trip outside to lend a hand in the garden!

[kunosoura]

I did some digging around and I'm just not seeing any obvious bacterial/fungal issues that could be causing the leaf discoloration that I'm experiencing. I'll stay the course on checking pH and then possibly applying some micros, along with eradicating the whiteflies.

Regarding Extreme Bush's curled up leaves, I am a little worried about tomato curly top virus. Apparently it is spread by the beet leafhopper... which appears to be present in Florida. Not sure what to think about this.

[Barb_FL]

Some Ideas:

Extreme Bush is determinate; so could it be near the end of it's life. If so, get a cutting from the top; will save 6+ weeks. I google it and this comment from Victory Seeds "The leaves interestingly curl up and inward".

Seabright Labs are the ONLY yellow traps to buy; I am new to them this year (on my 3rd 15 pack already). The others all trap lizards and it is horrible.

Whiteflys - I had them really bad in Sept/early-mid October. It started with peppers and then spread to the tomatoes. They are much harder to see in those tight Rugose Leaves. I don't have any fruit set on any of the dwarfs.

[kunosoura]

Originally Posted by Barb_FL

Some Ideas:

Extreme Bush is determinate; so could it be near the end of it's life. If so, get a cutting from the top; will save 6+ weeks. I google it and this comment from Victory Seeds "The leaves interestingly curl up and inward".

Seabright Labs are the ONLY yellow traps to buy; I am new to them this year (on my 3rd 15 pack already). The others all trap lizards and it is horrible.

Whiteflys - I had them really bad in Sept/early-mid October. It started with peppers and then spread to the tomatoes. They are much harder to see in those tight Rugose Leaves. I don't have any fruit set on any of the dwarfs.

Helpful, thank you! Thanks for the info on the Extreme Bush - I feel silly for not knowing this. Good call on the plant cutting. I just might do that.

Down here do you all tend to run your fall plants into the next spring, or do you usually do separate fall and spring plants? I'm a little concerned with how big mine already are.

Fortunately we don't get TOO many lizards inside our screened-in area, and I do my best to chase them out before the kitties come out to help, but sometimes things happen.

[Barb_FL]

Forgot to mention, but on the Iditarod - I grew it in the spring and it was mega productive but just OK; it usually isn't a favorite. I didn't bother with it for the fall. For those neighbors that just like REDS, it served its' purpose. Also, I've read here that the first tomatoes usually aren't the best ones (for taste).

Marsha (Ginger) grows in one continual season.

Ginny (Fiishergurl) grows in 2 or three seasons.

I have grown in separate seasons but this fall the evenings lows are still around 74 so fruit set has been really limited. (I'm doing the electric toothbrush to assist - but nature is holding it back too). I'm hoping to do a mainly continuous season also with some additional sowing of the remaining Artisan seeds.

For new plants, I've already started taking cuttings where I only had one plant.

I find it easier to deal with the few really cold nights than the heat.

I'm really surprised you are getting such good fruit set since you are further south than me.

I have a lot of fruit set on SunGold, Garden Gem, Park's Whopper. They are ALL hybrids;
and Cole (from TV Robbie-Cole). Fruit set on everything else is minor. Early Girl finally set fruit.

[pecker88]

@kunosure: I wish I could help with the Iditarod Red, but since my last posting I can't even help my own plants LOL.

All of my New Big Dwarf 5 gal SWC's look like crap. Tall, minimal foliage, spindly and all the leaves dry (crispy) from the outside-in, from the bottom of the plant-up. The initial onset of it looks just like your Iditarod Red lower leaves.

My 5 gal. SWC's were all connected with tubing and I had a float and reservoir that kept the water level maintained in each bucket via gravity. Every other time I filled the source reservoir with 1/2 strength masterblend, cal. nitrate, mag. sulfate. My water was RO and always had a pH of 5.5.

To try and revive my sick plants I've:
-replaced soil in 3 of the SWC's with Raybo's 3:2:1 mix of pine bark fines, peat moss, perlite
- eliminated the fancy float/reservoir system, essentially turning the SWC's into regular (water from the top) containers
-flushed each plant with the outside hose for 20-30 mins, trying to eliminate salts or build-up of nutes
-only used plain water for the last month

Result:
Still crappy looking plants, esp. the New Big Dwarf. 4 plants that are 3-4 months old, tall, spindly, dried up looking leaves with maybe 2 tomatoes that are baseball sized, each of which has horrible BER.

Comparison:
Under the same 800w lights, I have 2 gal. nursery pots and fabric shopping bags, filled with Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and chicken manure that I only water once per week (maybe). What's funny is that these plants look 10x better. The habanero is loaded with peppers, and the Better Bush VFN Hybrid and Bush Beefsteak look awesome. All the foliage is dark green, all the buds on the hab. always turn to peppers. Their SWC counterparts drop 80% of the buds and the foliage is crispy. Wish I had NBD in regular soil (for comparison) so this was a true apples-to-apples comparison, but I think there is still something to be gained here.

Maybe NWB and Iditarod Red prefer soil, not soil-less medium?
Maybe I nuked my plants with too high nutrients?
Maybe my soil pH is totally out of whack?

Dont' know, but mine are getting dumped and replaced with high quality soil (FFOF) and new plants for round #2.

[kunosoura]

Originally Posted by Barb_FL

Forgot to mention, but on the Iditarod - I grew it in the spring and it was mega productive but just OK; it usually isn't a favorite. I didn't bother with it for the fall. For those neighbors that just like REDS, it served its' purpose. Also, I've read here that the first tomatoes usually aren't the best ones (for taste).

Marsha (Ginger) grows in one continual season.

Ginny (Fiishergurl) grows in 2 or three seasons.

I have grown in separate seasons but this fall the evenings lows are still around 74 so fruit set has been really limited. (I'm doing the electric toothbrush to assist - but nature is holding it back too). I'm hoping to do a mainly continuous season also with some additional sowing of the remaining Artisan seeds.

For new plants, I've already started taking cuttings where I only had one plant.

I find it easier to deal with the few really cold nights than the heat.

I'm really surprised you are getting such good fruit set since you are further south than me.

I have a lot of fruit set on SunGold, Garden Gem, Park's Whopper. They are ALL hybrids;
and Cole (from TV Robbie-Cole). Fruit set on everything else is minor. Early Girl finally set fruit.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the IR. I'll skip it for the next time around.

I'm almost thinking I'll start another Extreme Bush with a cutting and then set it out in the same bucket once the current plant ripens all of its fruit. I may be able to knock out another crop before it gets so cold that everything slows way down.

I'm feeling pretty good about this whole experience so far - I have half a mind to try out a Sungold this spring. Being a heavy producer, even in the heat, it could be fun to see just what it'll do. 5 gal bucket might be too small, but with good nutrients she may do OK.

Hopefully once temps drop some these babies will start setting some SERIOUS fruit. I can't imagine the harvest should they start setting fruit on even half the blossoms...

[kunosoura]

Originally Posted by pecker88

@kunosure: I wish I could help with the Iditarod Red, but since my last posting I can't even help my own plants LOL.

All of my New Big Dwarf 5 gal SWC's look like crap. Tall, minimal foliage, spindly and all the leaves dry (crispy) from the outside-in, from the bottom of the plant-up. The initial onset of it looks just like your Iditarod Red lower leaves.

My 5 gal. SWC's were all connected with tubing and I had a float and reservoir that kept the water level maintained in each bucket via gravity. Every other time I filled the source reservoir with 1/2 strength masterblend, cal. nitrate, mag. sulfate. My water was RO and always had a pH of 5.5.

To try and revive my sick plants I've:
-replaced soil in 3 of the SWC's with Raybo's 3:2:1 mix of pine bark fines, peat moss, perlite
- eliminated the fancy float/reservoir system, essentially turning the SWC's into regular (water from the top) containers
-flushed each plant with the outside hose for 20-30 mins, trying to eliminate salts or build-up of nutes
-only used plain water for the last month

Result:
Still crappy looking plants, esp. the New Big Dwarf. 4 plants that are 3-4 months old, tall, spindly, dried up looking leaves with maybe 2 tomatoes that are baseball sized, each of which has horrible BER.

Comparison:
Under the same 800w lights, I have 2 gal. nursery pots and fabric shopping bags, filled with Fox Farm Ocean Forest soil and chicken manure that I only water once per week (maybe). What's funny is that these plants look 10x better. The habanero is loaded with peppers, and the Better Bush VFN Hybrid and Bush Beefsteak look awesome. All the foliage is dark green, all the buds on the hab. always turn to peppers. Their SWC counterparts drop 80% of the buds and the foliage is crispy. Wish I had NBD in regular soil (for comparison) so this was a true apples-to-apples comparison, but I think there is still something to be gained here.

Maybe NWB and Iditarod Red prefer soil, not soil-less medium?
Maybe I nuked my plants with too high nutrients?
Maybe my soil pH is totally out of whack?

Dont' know, but mine are getting dumped and replaced with high quality soil (FFOF) and new plants for round #2.

Can you post any current pics of your SWC plants? Maybe someone will recognize an issue. Kinda sounds nutrient-related, but I'm no expert. I certainly appreciate that you've taken all the reasonable steps to rectify any nutrient issue. It does sound quite discouraging though, which I'm sorry to hear about. I had a poor year recently back in VA when I still lived there. No matter what I did the spotted wilt virus wrecked EVERYTHING. It was so depressing.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope things start looking up. Wish I could help more.

[kunosoura]

Today I went and checked the pH of the water in some of my plants - they're all 6-7 (pH paper).

I mixed up a micronutrient blend of Cu, Zn, Mn, Fe, B, and Ca and fed the babies. Fe and Ca in the 20-50 ppm range, the others in the 10-20 ppm range in the reservoirs. Was scared of overdoing it.

We'll see what happens!