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Old January 8, 2018   #16
paulgrow
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Here is the reply from TSC

Hi Paul,
Thank you for your email.
Our Heirloom Marriage tomatoes are hybrid - crossing 2 beloved heirlooms together, the resulting cultivar bears the best qualities of both parent varieties with the added benefits of hybrid vigor, disease resistance, uniformity and yield.
I hope that helps!
RaNae
TSC
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Old January 8, 2018   #17
Fred Hempel
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Hybrid vigor. A main rationale for creating the Heirloom Marriage hybrids.

I am interested in hearing about any experiences people have had growing them side-by-side with their known parents.

Figure in link is from this PNAS article.

Last edited by Fred Hempel; January 8, 2018 at 12:39 PM.
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Old January 8, 2018   #18
BigVanVader
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I've noticed this as well. Especially in first generation crosses. I'm growing Marnero this year after hearing good feedback from other growers.
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Old January 8, 2018   #19
Fred Hempel
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Curiously, Marnero was one case where we did not see performance that was better than similar OP varieties, but our results were inconclusive. The other problem is that we really don't know who Marnero's parents are.

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Originally Posted by BigVanVader View Post
I've noticed this as well. Especially in first generation crosses. I'm growing Marnero this year after hearing good feedback from other growers.
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Old January 8, 2018   #20
paulgrow
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This whole thing has me confused.. TSC crossed 2 varieties and they are a F1 hybrid. if I go into my garden and cross 2 varieties they are OP. Can someone help an old man understand this?

Thank you
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Old January 8, 2018   #21
Ann123
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No, if you cross them they are a hybrid.
If they are self pollinated (and the parent is stable) it is an Op.
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Old January 9, 2018   #22
korney19
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This has gotten really bad; they are selling F2-F6 seeds (some no Filial gen listed) at a premium price ($5.50-$7.00 for 10-20 seeds) under the claim, "Create Your Own Heirlooms" as if it were that easy. Marianne's has a Breeder Page with at least a half dozen "breeders" many known if you've been on tomato forums for a while, some even members here. This creates a real mess, especially if anybody passes these out or, even worse, sells them! These are the places I avoid, those who stoop so lowly.

Last edited by korney19; January 9, 2018 at 01:20 AM.
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Old January 9, 2018   #23
KarenO
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That’s not quite the same situation as the OP referring to F1 seed creatively called “heirloom marriage”

However i know of which you speak and it Mystifies me too why anyone would pay 6 bucks for 10 crossed seeds but I guess they do.
Each guaranteed to be fantastic “line” Already named I might add.
To each their own I suppose.
I learned my own lesson being disappointed by early segregating but already named tomatoes like shadow boxing and dancing with smurfs for example. Never did get what I was under the impression I would and I will never waste the space again.
It is also why I will not release anything of mine until at least F7+.

KarenO

Last edited by KarenO; January 9, 2018 at 09:22 AM.
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Old January 9, 2018   #24
Greatgardens
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I had good results from Juanne Flammee last summer, so I'm trying Perfect Flame this year (from the Heirloom Marriage series).
-GG
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