Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 26, 2013   #1
danielnc84
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 37
Default Big Zac

Okay I know Big Zac will not stay true. is there anything i can do to get this plant to try to breed true? I have 3 plants that are all beside each other they havnt started to bloom yet but I would like to save some seeds and do some testing with them. I dont mind this process taking 5 to 10 seasons of growing to get my desired results which is a decent sized 3 pounds plus sized tomato. any thoughts or help would be appreciated!

Sincerely

Daniel Fries
danielnc84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26, 2013   #2
Redbaron
Tomatovillian™
 
Redbaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,473
Default

Well you could just save seed and follow the lines and select for the characteristics you want. Takes a lot of lines typically though. Some of the old breeders would grow out 1000 plants or more and select just a couple to save seeds for the following season.
__________________
Scott

AKA The Redbaron

"Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system."
Bill Mollison
co-founder of permaculture
Redbaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26, 2013   #3
PA_Julia
Tomatovillian™
 
PA_Julia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Princeton, Ky Zone 7A
Posts: 2,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielnc84 View Post
Okay I know Big Zac will not stay true. is there anything i can do to get this plant to try to breed true? I have 3 plants that are all beside each other they havnt started to bloom yet but I would like to save some seeds and do some testing with them. I dont mind this process taking 5 to 10 seasons of growing to get my desired results which is a decent sized 3 pounds plus sized tomato. any thoughts or help would be appreciated!

Sincerely

Daniel Fries

Daniel,

I concentrate fully on growing tomatoes for size competition. It's the only thing I do now.
The Big Zac Hybrid was created by Minnie Zaccaria of Long Branch New Jersey.

Minnie has won the New Jersey Tomato Championship seven times .

Her Big Zac hybrid won the 1997 Championship for her with a monster 6.16 pound specimen.

Big Zac is a cross between a red and pink beefsteak which is known only to her.
She sold the rights to Totally Tomatoes http://www.totallytomato.com/ to be the official retail outlet for the Big Zac.

Since it's inception the Big Zac has been grown out from it's original source many many times with successful results.

Most growers consider the Big Zac strain fairly stable now.

Last year was my rookie year at growing giants where I reached my personal best of 2.86 LBS with a Big Zac.

I saved the seeds from that tomato and have four Big Zac plants amongst my other strains I'm growing this season to reach my 2012 goal of the four pound mark.

My lineup this year is approx 18 plants all in which are strains that grow giants.

I highly recommend the book "" Giant Tomatoes "" written by Dr. Marv Meisner which will give you invaluable information needed to grow giants from the Big Zac and the many other types of tomatoes with potential to grow a heavyweight.

A link to Amazon for the book is here;
http://www.amazon.com/Giant-Tomatoes.../dp/0975515314

My particular Big Zac linage began with seeds from Totally tomatoes.
Since this is season two of growing that linage it is my own particular F-2.
It is offically called 2.86 Diehl-2012 and can be found here;

http://tomato.giantstogrow.com/Tomat...s.php?PN=diehl

This website that I listed above is a valuable tool for you to see linage of different types of tomato lines and their subsequent offspring.
__________________
Personal Best- 4.46 LB Big Zac 2013
PA_Julia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26, 2013   #4
PA_Julia
Tomatovillian™
 
PA_Julia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Princeton, Ky Zone 7A
Posts: 2,210
Default

Addendum;

Daniel,

Big Zac plants consistently give growers large tomatoes upwards of five pounds as recently as last year.
__________________
Personal Best- 4.46 LB Big Zac 2013
PA_Julia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2013   #5
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 20,040
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PA_Julia View Post
Addendum;

Daniel,

Big Zac plants consistently give growers large tomatoes upwards of five pounds as recently as last year.
Julia, I don't know how many message sites you read at but if you read at GW or DG or even here at Tville, I think you'll see that those NOT growing for competition by disbudding or looking for fused blossoms, etc, don't get fruits in the 5# range. More like 2-3 # and there are plenty of OP v arieties that do the same in the 2-3# range.

A bit of back story here.

Totally Tomatoes was originally owned by Wayne Hilton before he sold it and his other companies to Jung's a few years ago. The original contract was between Minnie and Hilton. But then the blurb for it read to rogue out this and that and that shouldn't occur with F1 plants.

So Minnie was invited to GW to hopefully explain what happened. And she graciously came. She said that TT had "lost" one of the parents.

When Hilton sold to Jung's the contract was still in force but they were able to locate the other parent, don't ask me how, b'c I don't know.

THey then had the original F1 done and now offer the correct Big Zac F1.

In the meantime there were several places that were offering F1 seed, which couldn't be, what they were offering was F2 seed and I remember that one of those places was Reimers.

As to the parents of Big Zac, a man named Bob Ambrose who lived in NJ frequently did stories about Minnie in his newsletter, whom he knew well. In one of them Minnie said that one of the parents was a family heirloom variety of hers.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2013   #6
PA_Julia
Tomatovillian™
 
PA_Julia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Princeton, Ky Zone 7A
Posts: 2,210
Default

Hi Caroline! :O)

Yes, I'm aware of the Reimer's Seeds F2 history.

The majority of my information comes from T****** Depot's forum for giant tomato growing which is moderated by Dr. Marv Meisner.

I obtained most of the information concerning Totally Tomatoes being the exclusive outlet for F-1's from Marv's book.

Your information concerning the backstory of such is very interesting and I thank you for informing me about it.

I am also on Big Pumpkins.com's giant tomato growing message board where Marv also frequents.

Many of the tomatoes listed here came originated from the Big Zac strain with some as descendants of Hunts Delicious strain world record holder.

These are just a sampling of some giants from last year back to 2008;



5.0 Timm 09. > 3.8 Timm 06.
4.90 Nieuwenhoff 12. > 4.62 timm x self.
4.42 Landry 11. > 7.33 Hunt Delicious. 24.25" CC,
4.41 Timm 09. > 5.32 Timm 08.
4.39 Timm 09. > 5.58 Timm 08.
4.29 Timm 08. > 3.90 Catapano.
4.19 Montgomery 12. > 5.07 Boudyo x self.
3.85 Landry 11. > 7.33 Hunt Delicious. 23.25" CC,
3.85 Hain 12. > 4.42 Landry 11 x Self.
3.81 Sundin 12. > 4.91 Lyons 11 x Self.
3.61 Sundin 12. > 4.42 Landry 11 x self. (
CC = circumference )

My vision concerning tomatoes has become myopic to only focus on this particular subset of growing.

Thanks Carolyn for the information!!
__________________
Personal Best- 4.46 LB Big Zac 2013
PA_Julia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2013   #7
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielnc84 View Post
... is there anything i can do to get this plant to try to breed true? I dont mind this process taking 5 to 10 seasons of growing to get my desired results which is a decent sized 3 pounds plus sized tomato. any thoughts or help would be appreciated!
Yes, save seeds from your F1 tomatoes, and plant out 10 or more F2 Big Zacs next year.

Also plant a couple of F1 Big Zacs next year as well.

Compare your F2 plants and fruit to the F1 plants and fruit.

Select the closest replication from among the F2 plants, and back cross using pollen from the F1 plants.

Save seeds from the back crossed fruit and repeat the process the following year.

When you find plants and fruit among the F2s from this continued process that resemble the F1 plants as closely as you wish, then save the seeds from those closest replications and go on from there.
travis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2013   #8
lakelady
Tomatovillian™
 
lakelady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: northern NJ zone 6b
Posts: 1,863
Default

Marv Meisner's book is great, I have it too, but I don't grow strictly for size or for competitions. I just got it to read for fun, and it is interesting.

Last year I grew Big Zac with several other larger size beefsteaks, and I think the biggest one, without any special treatment was about 18 oz. but many were around the pound mark. I think, if you want to grow for competition or giant size, you'd have to do as Julia does with selection, mega blooms, etc. Otherwise it will just grow nice sized tomatoes.
__________________
Antoniette
lakelady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2013   #9
danielnc84
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 37
Default

Thanks for the Info PA Julia. This is my first season for trying for Big Tomatoes. I have roughly 18 plants and another 24 in the greenhouse. My Big Zac's are starting to grow pretty well now. Im looking for Mega blooms and what not along with reg 10 10 10 and calcium Nitrate along with a little bit of potash mixed with horse manure and leaves in the beds. so far the onlything that has had fused blooms is my German Johnson Reg. leaf... I am hoping to achieve 3 to 4 lbs tomatoes this year. I will def. save seeds from my 3 biggest maters from big zac and have a ton for testing if any of you want some seeds Ill have a post for them when they are ready for testing!

Thanks for all your time

Sincerely Daniel Fries
danielnc84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31, 2013   #10
carpi
Tomatovillian™
 
carpi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: italy
Posts: 20
Default

i'm doing the same on a very small scale, so i think i can share my experience
i saved seeds from F1 BZ and now i'm growing F5
no special care, and no giants so far
i got a lot of 1 pounders, some 1 and a half, never reached 2 pounds
i would say that 2 pounds is definitely possible, but to get over that you would need special efforts (1 fruit per plant, etc)
that is without considering megablooms, which i dislike and usually take away as they produce ugly, almost uneatable and senseless tomatoes (in my opinion megablooms are sort of cheating, which should be also banned from competitions: I consider much more prize worty - and difficult- to get 3 pounds from a single fruit than to get 5 pounds from 5 fruits fused together)

what i like from my big zac line is that the plants are generally quite strong, starting from lively seedlings and almost always ending up to be the best plants in the yard (together with mexico, which is another of my favourite varieties)

last year, while growing F4, something interesting happened
i spotted beefteaks and hearts growing on the same plant
i don't know if it's a mutation, or just segregation or what, anyway i saved seeds from both, and this year i'm growing 5 of each type, and they are producing true to type
this season we had terrible weather, unusual cold and lots of rain in may and june, so i havent harvested my first tomato yet (i expect my first big zac heart to be redy in a couple of days) so plants are basically all late, small and not so good looking as usual
beefsteak type tend to look a bit better that hearts (but this is sort of normal, in general) except one plant which looks so much better than all the others (i call it Godzilla)
it is about 2 feet taller, much wider, actually bearing 12 fruits (+ i pruned 2, for a total of 14) compared to the 2-3-4 fruits of the other plants (with no pruning)
if they ripen and taste as expected, i will definitely save seeds from this one, and also from the best plant of the hearts (i feel they deserve another chance, as this season has been really horrible)

so, interesting things happen from segregation of BZ (and other hybrids too, i guess), i seem to remember somebody else got pink beefsteaks from BZ some years ago, and most likely will happen to you too (although i doubt that 3 pounds fruits will be the norm)

best luck with your selection!
carpi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25, 2017   #11
LSUheirloom
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lafayette Louisiana
Posts: 4
Default

I'm bumping this thread to see if the seeds are stable.
LSUheirloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25, 2017   #12
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 20,040
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUheirloom View Post
I'm bumping this thread to see if the seeds are stable.
Lots of in formation in this link about stability of F1 Big Zac,some as recent as 2016.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Big+...&bih=788&dpr=1

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5, 2017   #13
FredB
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 74
Default

Various open-pollinated lines derived from Big Zac are favorites among those who like to grow extremely large tomatoes, and have produced at least two world records. Seeds for Big Zac OP are available from some of the sources in Carolyn's Google search and are also listed in the Seed Savers Exchange Yearbook. These lines have been around for a while, so they are are probably derived from the original Totally Tomatoes version of Big Zac F1.
FredB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5, 2017   #14
pmcgrady
Tomatovillian™
 
pmcgrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredB View Post
Various open-pollinated lines derived from Big Zac are favorites among those who like to grow extremely large tomatoes, and have produced at least two world records. Seeds for Big Zac OP are available from some of the sources in Carolyn's Google search and are also listed in the Seed Savers Exchange Yearbook. These lines have been around for a while, so they are are probably derived from the original Totally Tomatoes version of Big Zac F1.
I just picked my biggest Big Zac F1 so far this year (1# 15oz), I grew one last year that was 3# 8oz. I'm also growing a couple F3 and F4, they are big but not as big as the F1. They all look the same.
pmcgrady is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★