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Information and discussion about canning and dehydrating tomatoes and other garden vegetables and fruits. DISCLAIMER: SOME RECIPES MAY NOT COMPLY WITH CURRENT FOOD SAFETY GUIDELINES - FOLLOW AT YOUR OWN RISK

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Old September 23, 2017   #46
clkeiper
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Taboule... that is an awesome stove.
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Old September 24, 2017   #47
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Very nice set up, taboule. Worth, on potatoes, like carrots it is recommended to peel them as an extra layer of protection. If you can eliminate a possible contaminant, it's probably best to do so. Yes, it is a lot of extra work.
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Old September 24, 2017   #48
Worth1
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Unless you are planning on long range preserving I find it almost not economical to can either one anyway.
Maybe carrots.
Another thought is from my observations in life eating potatoes with the skin on is a rather new concept.
When many of these instructions came out for canning them it was almost unheard of.
Sometimes I think I was the family test goat.
They would observe me after eating crazy stuff for a few days and then try it if I didn't get sick.
Depending on what culture you were from when I was young you simply could not get someone to eat a potato skin even if it was a baked potato skin.
Another one was you did ((NOT)) eat under cooked meat of any kind.

I distinctly remember eating my baked potato skin and rare steak when I was young and the family looking on in horror.

Here is my worthless take on canning with skins on.
Water being the least dense and the skin being on the outside of the potato.
This part will get up to the required temperature first and therefor be at that temperature longer than the center of the potato.
Not trying to be argumentative it is just fact.
In the heat treating of steel world this is called soak time.
The more mass something has the longer it has to be "soaked" once the required temperature is reached.
It is also the reason they dont have any recipes for products that have thickeners like flour in them.
They cannot control all the variables involved therefor they cant control mass therefor they cant come up with a soak time.
Factories do it because they have a lab to do testing and of which they aren't going to give up information.
This would put them on the spot if the person didn't follow the guidelines to the tee.


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Old September 24, 2017   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
I see you're loving your tomato strainer.
Worth
Worth, it made me do it. Had been cooped up unused for ~11 months, it was itching and begging me to press something.

Carolyn, yes thanks, it's a nice one and what swayed me to buy the house. 6 large propane burners, a built-in grill (covered in the pic), 2 ovens -electric with convection, and a massive hood. Commercial grade. That thing gets HOT. I get to use it fully now that DW is away She doesn't like it as much. Says it is "hard to clean." So?? No need to do it as often, or at all, let the high heat burn off and carbonize the splatters and drippings

Barb, it took me a few tries to optimize the setup, especially the milling/pressing configuration. I had to raise the machine just the right amount to fit a bowl under the chute (for the juice) and also strategically locate it over the sink so another, bigger bowl (for the skins) can fit under the spout. I used an old/recycled drawer from a defunct desk, positioned upside down, to prop up the mill.

Woke up early this morning and thinking of another batch, or 2, of salsa (try a new recipe) and/or something else. I have a bunch of eggplants that are begging to be picked, let's see what the day brings ;-)

Last edited by taboule; September 24, 2017 at 10:08 PM.
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Old September 24, 2017   #50
taboule
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>>>
you simply could not get someone to eat a potato skin even if it was a baked potato skin
>>>

Ages ago, a friend visited me and was helping cook dinner -making mashed potatoes. He simply washed/cleaned them, quartered, then in a boiling pot they went. Once cooked, he proceeded to mash them, skin and all -with me looking aghast. When I asked he said he was a cook in the air force, and they never let them peel potatoes on the job. Waste of time, and waste of food.

Last edited by taboule; September 24, 2017 at 02:45 PM.
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Old September 24, 2017   #51
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The few times I was on mess duty I cooked and didn't do dishes never did do dishes.
The potato peeler looked like a washing machine with the inside looking like some huge grinder.
You dumped the potatoes in turned on the water and spun it up.
Mass amounts of potatoes peeled in seconds.
If you weren't careful it would grind all the potatoes away.
Since using that thing I have never wanted to peel potatoes with a knife again.

Worth
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Old September 24, 2017   #52
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Worth,

I read a study some years ago on the time and temperatures needed to kill botulism spores. I don’t remember where I found the study but recall that they added spores to jars filled with neutral water (pH=7) and processed them. As I recall, the spores could survive up to 20 hours in a boiling water bath! That blew my mind as I used to think boiling temperatures would kill everything.

Pressure canning at 10 lbs. (240°F) killed the spores in something like 12 minutes, and at 15 lbs. (250°F) in under three minutes. Now one must remember that the spores need to reach and hold those temperatures, and it takes some time for the heat to fully penetrate the food in the jar. The larger the jar and the thicker or chunkier the food, the longer it takes for the heat to penetrate. And if some spores are in the center of a quart jar and stuck between a couple of pieces of onion for insulation, even more time is needed. This is why canning recipes often call for processing times of 30 to 60 minutes or more, even at high pressures, to allow for these variables.

The alternative to killing the spores is to establish conditions under which they cannot hatch, such as increasing the acidity or freezing. The spores themselves are common and harmless (except to infants), but if allowed to hatch the bacteria inside the spores create the deadly toxin as they grow. Spores can hatch if they are stored at temperatures of 40-140°F, have moisture, food, little to no oxygen, and low acidity (pH >4.6). These conditions are common in many canned foods, hence the need to kill the spores by pressure canning. High acid foods, however (pH <4.6) can be canned in a boiling water bath as the acidity prevents the spores from hatching.

High acid foods include foods pickled in vinegar (>50%), acidified foods (enough added vinegar, lemon juice or citric acid) and many fruits. Low acid vegetables such as beans, asparagus, beets, carrots, potatoes, onions, garlic, meats and many more require pressure canning. Tomatoes, the most commonly canned vegetable, are on the border of high and low acidity and may need special attention.

Generally speaking, pure tomato products acidified with a little lemon juice or citric acid are safe for boiling water processing. If, however, you add low acid vegetables to the tomatoes, such as onions, peppers, celery, and garlic so common to making sauces and salsas, then you risk raising the pH to unsafe levels. These products should be acidified and pressure canned. Following approved recipes is a safe way to go, even though I do not. I have been canning my own tomato salsa recipe for over 40 years, even though it differs from approved recipes, but by acidifying with citric acid and pressure canning for 45 minutes at 15 pounds I am comfortable. Your mileage may vary, and I am not suggesting anyone just create their own recipes willy nilly. If you are going to can then you should educated yourself as to the proper procedures and risks.

Some websites in my opinion exaggerate the risks and chase people away from this rewarding hobby. A couple other points about botulism. While a very nasty disease that can leave one paralyzed, it is rarely deadly with a 96% survival rate. Usually by the time one notices the symptoms (blurry or double vision, trouble speaking, and difficulty breathing) they get themselves to a hospital where the progress of the disease can be stopped, but not reversed. It can take many months to recover.

It is also very rare with only a few cases per year among the 20+ million home canners in the USA, mostly caused by low acid foods being boiling water bath canned. And finally, the toxin if formed can be destroyed by boiling the product for 15 minutes, although one must be very careful handling such a product.

Still botulism should not be ignored and all home canners should read up on proper canning techniques rather than following grandma’s recipes and methods. Grandma may have survived, but you may not. If you are going to do it, do it right.

TomNJ/VA

Last edited by TomNJ; September 25, 2017 at 10:49 AM.
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Old September 24, 2017   #53
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Here is a process some may be interested in.
The Shaka Process.
Not recommending anyone pick up their hot canner and shake it around.
http://shakaprocess.com/index.php/wh...shaka-process/
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Old September 25, 2017   #54
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Worth and All,

I have a question about something I've experienced a couple of times and again yesterday. In one of the two different batches, there was excessive leak of the juices from the jars into the water of the pressure cooker. So much that the water at the end looked like a thin soup (or broth,) and the jars had 1~1.5 inches of headspace. Only thing I can (guess?) possibly attribute this to is the food was chunky (eggplants+onions+coarse chopped tomatoes) with little liquid. I made sure I packed the food well and left no air bubbles.

Any clues and ideas on how to eliminate this? I had roasted the mix with EVOO, and of course the oil also made a mess in the canner -and one of the jars lost the seal as I was handling it for storage -the oil compromised the seal. Cook time was 20 min at 15 psi. I can post a picture or 2 if that helps. Thanks.

Last edited by taboule; September 25, 2017 at 09:15 AM.
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Old September 25, 2017   #55
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Did you vent it or let the pressure drop on it's own?
I honestly put my rings on snug but not super tight, not loose like some people do.

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Old September 25, 2017   #56
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If you release the pressure from the canner it will siphon the contents of the jars out... if you let it drop on its own it doesn't happen. at least I have never had it happen allowing it to cool off without releasing the pressure (aka... impatience). I have even seen it happen in a waterbath canner.removing the jars from a rolling boil will also cause the juice to siphon all over the counter.
I also have more than one canner... that really speeds things up. I won't confess how many I have... more than two. less than 10 I find them at the goodwill or thrift shops.. I snag them right up. I got one last week for 5.00 like new. mirro brand still in the box. I am giving it to a friend who has a large family to feed and one pressure canner.
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Old September 25, 2017   #57
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Worth and Carolyn, thank you so much.

I suspected this could be the reason when I thought of the pressure plays and sudden decompression. (I did cool the canner under a stream of water.) However, I did the same with the second batch, which was thinner/more liquid, and didn't have any problem. It could be a combination of things.

I will avoid doing this again, which means I need a new canner Carolyn, where I live, we no longer find anything of value, used (flee markets, goodwill or CL.) Only junk. Sometimes one gets lucky at a garage sale, if early.

I see a new AA 30 quarts in my future

Stayed up late last night to finish the 2 batches. Let me upload/download the pics and I will post. Worth, OK with you if I use this thread?
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Old September 25, 2017   #58
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Worth and Carolyn, thank you so much.

I suspected this could be the reason when I thought of the pressure plays and sudden decompression. (I did cool the canner under a stream of water.) However, I did the same with the second batch, which was thinner/more liquid, and didn't have any problem. It could be a combination of things.

I will avoid doing this again, which means I need a new canner Carolyn, where I live, we no longer find anything of value, used (flee markets, goodwill or CL.) Only junk. Sometimes one gets lucky at a garage sale, if early.

I see a new AA 30 quarts in my future

Stayed up late last night to finish the 2 batches. Let me upload/download the pics and I will post. Worth, OK with you if I use this thread?
it takes time to run across the canners. I might find one or two a year. I know nothing about you or your strength, but that AA30 will be very heavy. you might need/want to leave it on the stove and turn it off then remove the jars... I have a 21qt national that stacks pints and it is heavy when full. But it is a great canner!
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Old September 25, 2017   #59
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also did you leave the proper head space when filling jars? some recipes call from anywhere between 1/4 inch to 1 inch head space in jar, not to be a smart azz but the instruction book should of told you to let it cool down on it's own, and not to remove weight, or put cold rags on it. mine has a gauge on it and i wait til it reads zero before removing weight and opening.---tom
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Old September 25, 2017   #60
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All of the ideas here, good ones. Fill jars properly, proper headspacing, close ring only finger tight. You need the right amount of liquid in the jars when packing to ensure that the heat is conducted properly. Too much oil in the jar can spread up the jar during processing and prevent sealing.

It is never a good idea to force cool down a canner. The time it takes to cool down before opening is figured into the processing time. Force cooling means the food is under processed. Let it do its thing naturally. Opening before hitting zero will cause siphoning. Best not to can with oils in the food as yes, any siphoning means oil on the sealing compound.
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