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Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.

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Old September 25, 2017   #16
KarenO
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In addition to genetics , I am also Interested in environmental influences. I am a Northern Gardener and have noted throughout my gardening experience that every year in a wide range of varieties including my own Breeding projects that the earliest fruits set, typically during periods of night time temps under 10 degrees C are either nearly or entirely seedless.
How do environmental influences factor in to your project? I consider my early seedless fruit a normal occurrence related to temperature that can be seen in my garden in any variety every year. Have your tomatoes been grown in a varied range of environmental conditions, indoors, outdoors, cold,hot etc. If so, whatceffects if any do those variables have?

For Example the fruit shown in this picture is a completely seedless early KARMA purple cherry early in the season this year. Later fruits on the plant have seeds and gel in normal amounts.
Interesting project.
KarenO
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Old September 25, 2017   #17
Brent M
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In addition to genetics , I am also Interested in environmental influences. I am a Northern Gardener and have noted throughout my gardening experience that every year in a wide range of varieties including my own Breeding projects that the earliest fruits set, typically during periods of night time temps under 10 degrees C are either nearly or entirely seedless.
How do environmental influences factor in to your project? I consider my early seedless fruit a normal occurrence related to temperature that can be seen in my garden in any variety every year. Have your tomatoes been grown in a varied range of environmental conditions, indoors, outdoors, cold,hot etc. If so, whatceffects if any do those variables have?

For Example the fruit shown in this picture is a completely seedless early KARMA purple cherry early in the season this year. Later fruits on the plant have seeds and gel in normal amounts.
Interesting project.
KarenO
Hi Karen!

I videoed all the environments you mention except growing in extreme cold. Here's that video: https://youtu.be/aYelAHUTU9M I do have a video of it from last November in the cold, but it had information in it I didn't want to get out so I chose not to release it and to really do the videoing of cold growth this winter. I wasn't thinking about Brent like I am now because I wasn't dead certain on what Brent meant or was. I started "proof" videoing this year, but I noticed that there is a consortium of countries/scientists aggressively and genetically trying to create seedless tomato lines this past spring. So, I felt it was important to release Brent very early. I would have bred the crossed lines and attempted to get several beefsteaks with the recessive trait. I have 6 crossed lines for that reason. With the release, I can no longer grow it because I can't protect it or control it. At least without huge worry. Brent,the plant, is parthenocarpic. I have seen it grow a fruit in all conditions. I've come to say, "If the plant will grow, a tomato will grow." Most of your questions are addressed in the linked video of mine. I've grown in in heat, high humidity, low humidity, full sun, and in low light with the help of my environmentally controlled greenhouse. That's really just an 8' x 12' extension on my shed that has a heater and air conditioner in it. I built it to test Brent and grow through the winter. I second your observations on noticing seedless or mostly seedless fruits in the cold environments or even in the first few trusses. I've run across that many times in my research. Great questions.
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Old September 25, 2017   #18
KarenO
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i meant in natural environments.
So it has been grown exclusively hydroponically and under cover.

KarenO
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Old September 25, 2017   #19
Brent M
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i meant in natural environments.
So it has been grown exclusively hydroponically and under cover.

KarenO
It has not been grown in dirt, but it's been grown outside in containers. That's in the video as well. It grew the absolute best in direct, hot sun. Nodes were shorter and it was dense with lots of suckers/flowers as you've seen in the pics here. Do you think it will perform differently planted in soil? I expect it will be massive if let loose, but no, not grown in a traditional garden. That was meant for 2018, but things have changed.
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Old September 25, 2017   #20
bower
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Hi Brent,
With regards the question of Siletz, I found maybe two seeded fruit out of 24? Say 10 percent or less. It was actually a bit frustrating as I wanted seeds, kept picking out fruit for seeds, cutting them open and getting nothing. Was later in the season I got some seeds iirc. Something like 40 seeds produced by the plant in a whole season's fruit.
I only grew it once... some other grower can tell you more.
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Old September 25, 2017   #21
Brent M
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Hi Brent,
With regards the question of Siletz, I found maybe two seeded fruit out of 24? Say 10 percent or less. It was actually a bit frustrating as I wanted seeds, kept picking out fruit for seeds, cutting them open and getting nothing. Was later in the season I got some seeds iirc. Something like 40 seeds produced by the plant in a whole season's fruit.
I only grew it once... some other grower can tell you more.
I just saw you were from Newfoundland. Gina and I are dying to get there. We did NB, NS, and PEI, but didn't have time to ferry over. It's on our to do for sure.
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Old September 25, 2017   #22
bower
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Well... conditions are certainly different for growing tomatoes here. But we do get extremes in greenhouses or hoops, that can produce the same problems as south - too hot to set etc. Cherries and a few others will tolerate the heat better than most. So it will be interesting to see how your breeding project goes with the larger fruit.

IMO seedless would be a great trait for paste tomatoes intended for making sauce. A plant that pumped out seedless processing tomatoes in cold or heat would be commercially valuable.

Siletz was really not a bad tasting tomato btw. The problem I had with it, nearly every fruit split.
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Old September 25, 2017   #23
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Why not just grow some of the hearts like orange Russian they are almost seedless.

In all honesty I can respect the process and the work doing this sort of thing but I am personally against it.

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Old September 25, 2017   #24
Brent M
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Why not just grow some of the hearts like orange Russian they are almost seedless.

In all honesty I can respect the process and the work doing this sort of thing but I am personally against it.

Worth
It's normal breeding the same as crossing a disease resistant variety with a lesser one to improve the tomato's viability. Simple cross. No scientific mumbo-jumbo going on. I'm not smart enough! Lol. In this case, it could potentially open doors for so many people to enjoy the tomato that never could have before not to mention improving costs for farmers. I've already had folks asking if it would improve the ability to grow tomatoes in Alaska, Canada, and Arizona so the need is out there. I am incredibly honored to bring this forward. But, I am not trying to convince you of anything. Much respect Mr. Worth. I am curious if you're willing to share your opposition. It certainly may help address things for some folks and I'm all about that.
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Old September 26, 2017   #25
Locomatto
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For me parthenocarpy isn't about getting seedless tomatoes, but about getting a harvest when I normally wouldn't. When the rest of my tomatoes just sat around and waited for fall before they did anything, Siletz was happily fruiting and ripening during the heat of summer.

I just wish that it was an indeterminate.

Good luck on your video channel :-)
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Old September 26, 2017   #26
Worth1
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It's normal breeding the same as crossing a disease resistant variety with a lesser one to improve the tomato's viability. Simple cross. No scientific mumbo-jumbo going on. I'm not smart enough! Lol. In this case, it could potentially open doors for so many people to enjoy the tomato that never could have before not to mention improving costs for farmers. I've already had folks asking if it would improve the ability to grow tomatoes in Alaska, Canada, and Arizona so the need is out there. I am incredibly honored to bring this forward. But, I am not trying to convince you of anything. Much respect Mr. Worth. I am curious if you're willing to share your opposition. It certainly may help address things for some folks and I'm all about that.
Just me personally I don't want anything that can't reproduce itself.
As far as the research and use elsewhere that is none of my business and encourage it.
Against may not have been the best selection of words.
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Old September 26, 2017   #27
bower
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Just me personally I don't want anything that can't reproduce itself.
As far as the research and use elsewhere that is none of my business and encourage it.
Against may not have been the best selection of words.
Worth
As far as trait selection, I agree with you Worth. Yes there are varieties that I love like OJPL, that can be seedless, or hearts with very few seeds, but this means that I have to work harder to make sure I can maintain seed of it. On the other hand, I am always looking out for plants that set fruit - with seeds - in more extreme conditions than the average can handle. So ability to set seed at lower or higher temperatures etc is a trait that I prefer, personally.
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Old September 26, 2017   #28
Brent M
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For me parthenocarpy isn't about getting seedless tomatoes, but about getting a harvest when I normally wouldn't. When the rest of my tomatoes just sat around and waited for fall before they did anything, Siletz was happily fruiting and ripening during the heat of summer.

I just wish that it was an indeterminate.

Good luck on your video channel :-)
You are exactly right. The importance of Brent is the gene associated with parthenocarpy which delivers extended harvest and extended environment capabilities. That's the way I see it as well.
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Old September 26, 2017   #29
Brent M
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Just me personally I don't want anything that can't reproduce itself.
As far as the research and use elsewhere that is none of my business and encourage it.
Against may not have been the best selection of words.
Worth
Brent easily produces itself. Just save the seed.
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Old September 26, 2017   #30
Brent M
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As far as trait selection, I agree with you Worth. Yes there are varieties that I love like OJPL, that can be seedless, or hearts with very few seeds, but this means that I have to work harder to make sure I can maintain seed of it. On the other hand, I am always looking out for plants that set fruit - with seeds - in more extreme conditions than the average can handle. So ability to set seed at lower or higher temperatures etc is a trait that I prefer, personally.
Since Brent does this, I hope to bring the genetics forward for folks just like you. Goodness, it's so much more complicated than I imagined and I'm only 2 days past releasing the info.
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