Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

New to growing your own tomatoes? This is the forum to learn the successful techniques used by seasoned tomato growers. Questions are welcome, too.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #76
kevrow73
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Wales
Posts: 51
Default

Hello, thanks MissS and Worth, I was looking for info about Sphagnum moss on the internet last night and found
https://garden.org/ideas/view/drdawg...-vs-Peat-Moss/
It basically agrees with your comments but adds that it can be used as a seeds starting medium.
Coincidentally, the sphagnum moss my wife used to use, came from an area of land near to her parents farm and I'm told that the deeds to the farm dating back to I think the 16th century allow the owners of the farm to dig up the Peat underneath and burn as heating fuel. I'll have to go and have a look at it sometime, although I was warned that it is easy to get stuck if not careful.

Hope your Growth chamber is now working properly Ron, it's obvious you've invested a lot of time and effort on this.
kevrow73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #77
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissS View Post
Kevrow Sphagnum moss is an entirely different product than sphagnum peat moss. I see no way to start seeds in Sphagnum moss. Yes it is used to line planters sometimes and to grow orchids and such. Peat moss on the other hand, is a wonderful medium to start seeds and grow plants in.
Patti..Looks like I have blown it again ..I was told by the garden centre not to use Peat Moss because it was not Sterile..i used a Sphagnum Mulch especially grown and available in Garden Centres here but I do not like it and I am dreading transplanting as the moss I used has no solidity about it and apparantly I need to somehow move seedlings from a peat pot with the bottom cut out and perhaps two vertical cuts on the pot ( so roots can grow???) into my next container....which raises a question ..would your preference be a relative small pot or a much larger pot...These are being put in controled conditions... I have posted some photos...(1) I have just made trays where my pots will sit on a capillary cloth.. (2) My 4 Tasty Toms grown from seeds just to see what happens.... (3) the two pots I have to chose from ...i have been told to use the smaller pot which is the same as the Tasty Toms are in....

Going back to the Sphagnum moss.....I have a bag of peat moss here ???I should have sterilized in a microwave and perhaps used it with perlite ..i have a number of failures and wonder if its the mix I used....especially as the seeds had germinated when laid carefully in their pot...Thanks Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tray_2017-10-29_144915.jpg (53.1 KB, 44 views)
File Type: jpg TT Hybrids_2017-10-29_145055.jpg (41.7 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg Pot-Size_2017-10-29_145219.jpg (17.3 KB, 43 views)
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #78
MissS
Tomatovillian™
 
MissS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,548
Default

What has been done is done and you can not change it. I would cut off the bottoms of the pots and place them where you want them to grow. After they were placed, I would carefully cut the sides with a sharp scissors and remove as much of the pot as I could. Then I would fill in around the seedling with the new mix. If I have the room, I always plant into the largest pot that is available in order for the plant to have maximum growth. I would not wish to constrict the roots using a small or same size pot. Allow those roots to grow and grow. Also transplanting your plants is stressful on them and sets them back to some degree. I try to keep re potting to a minimum. I go from seed starting cell to small pot for 2-3 weeks and then into permanent home. Do not allow them to grow in these pots for very long.
__________________
HOOPER ~ aka Patti
Zone 5
MissS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #79
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Patti..Exactly..That was my idea ..I asked before I bought the peat pots and was told they disintigrate.. do not worry about the roots....As I understand now there is a real question mark over this ....The 4 Tasty toms are buried peat pot and all before I was aware of the question mark....Maybe they will be OK but some of the others ?? I just do not know and I will not take the risk with them ...Maybe I should seek information and do the opposite they tell me ...Yes They are being transplanted into pots and into a chamber for a 2-3 week Hardening off period then out into my greenhouse...the way the "pros" do it?? At least i have tryed....I do not think I am going to get anywhere with the Tasty Tom I purchased ..The gardening centre made comment about my photo of them just after being purchased ..that they were alright then with the inference I did something to one of them ...but one was always smaller ....I just would like to know an answer to the cause..Its at a stage now I just do not want to go there anymore and will go out to another centre that treats me far better even if its further away.....Regards Ron
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #80
MissS
Tomatovillian™
 
MissS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,548
Default

While the pots will not disintegrate, the roots will be able to grow through them. I tried them once many years ago and did not care for them for several reasons. I have found that I have much better results doing this the way that I do now. Your seedlings may suffer but your plants will not die from using them, they just will take a little longer to flourish.
__________________
HOOPER ~ aka Patti
Zone 5
MissS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #81
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Patti I watered the moss mix the seedling was in to hopefully hold the mix together and then cut the bottom off while it was on a shelf (so the Mix would not fall out) I then sliced a vertical cut in the side of the peat cup....I had already prepared the new pot with Tomato mix packed in its bottom..I never used lime as the Ph was 6.5 )..Sprinkled Mycorrhizae on the soil and carefully picked up my seedling clamping the Peat pot slightly as I lifted it onto the soil ...I was then able to unclamp the peat pot and lift it off with the mix not falling apart ...I then put the new soil around it filling in the sides to the height required....I watered in from a litre spray bottle with rain water and a small teaspoon of Miracle Grow in it....So it went well..Its going to take some time but I think well worth it....The Sweet Scarlets seeds I saved have grown very well ...The others really grew very little probably because it was too late ...

I found this seed available here ...and thought I must try this...Rapunzel F1 Hybrid ..I wonder if its over in America? Certainly impressive looking... Regards Ron
Attached Images
File Type: gif Tomato-Rapunzel-F1-Hybrid-63985..gif (107.4 KB, 49 views)
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #82
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Patti..Just as an afterthought I wonder if the peat pots could be blended and put in the soil mix.....everything is going nicely ....No problems so far .....Regards Ron
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #83
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Hi...First Tray is Transplanted without a Problem..Second tray should be done by midnight??...I hope I have not forgotten anything...No growth hormones in the water?

Tomorrow hopefully both trays will be sitting in the chamber in an air temperature of 10 degrees C...I am still unsure of the length they should have under lights daily so if anybody has the correct figure could they please advise.....They will have six computer fans blowing air across them 24/7 and hopefully a web cam that can relay to my computer pictures that can tell me that everything hopefully is OK within the chamber....Cheers Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg First Tray_2017-10-29_203013.jpg (94.4 KB, 49 views)

Last edited by murihikukid; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:45 AM.
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #84
dmforcier
Tomatovillian™
 
dmforcier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 3,693
Default

Is dirt sterile? Plants grow in it just fine. The only reason I can see to sterilize is to kill off some bothersome pathogen. You got none of them, then don't worry about it. Use peat moss.

And remember what I said about the advice of garden center employees.

There's a Catch-22 with pot size. Too big and the won't all fit in your greenhouse. I go from starter cell to 3 1/2" pots, then up to 6" or so. But I'm winnowing the numbers as I go so I don't pot as many as I start. The 3 1/2" pots all fit under the lights. The bigger pots don't and go outside.

That's some decent looking dirt you got there. A little heavier on the perlite than I use, but definitely in the ballpark.

I'm interested to hear how the capillary cloth works.
__________________


Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?
- Will Rogers


dmforcier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #85
oakley
Tomatovillian™
 
oakley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NewYork 5a
Posts: 1,613
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevrow73 View Post
Hello, thanks MissS and Worth, I was looking for info about Sphagnum moss on the internet last night and found
https://garden.org/ideas/view/drdawg...-vs-Peat-Moss/
It basically agrees with your comments but adds that it can be used as a seeds starting medium.
Coincidentally, the sphagnum moss my wife used to use, came from an area of land near to her parents farm and I'm told that the deeds to the farm dating back to I think the 16th century allow the owners of the farm to dig up the Peat underneath and burn as heating fuel. I'll have to go and have a look at it sometime, although I was warned that it is easy to get stuck if not careful.

Hope your Growth chamber is now working properly Ron, it's obvious you've invested a lot of time and effort on this.
I provided that same link near three months ago...
Here is the thread to put everything in order and perspective.
(in case someone else jumps in)
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=45793
oakley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #86
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Hi.dmforcier ..I biked up to the garden centre and the man there who "begrudgedly" serves me..Said "what do you want." I said "some Sphagnum peat moss please " ..He said "why the hell do you want that ..Its not sterile ..you will get diseases".....What does one say after that ..So I went back home with nothing and did some more reading and went for the advice of tomatodirt.com and Cornel University??? I am finished with that guy ..its an embarisment to go to the gardening dept just up the road...
Right the dirt???? There is a story I was told about dirt here and it all begins apparantly at a soil company just 5-6 miles out of the city .... They supply another garden centre who sell their super grow mix by the scoop full (tractor) and even bag it for you for $49 ( about 8-10 bags)..then I found out that garden centre company owns the Growing Company that grows the tomatoes flowers etc and probably own the soil company or at least have some ownership of it and in turn they supply the Biggest seller of bagged soil in NZ and possibly
others who operate under another name.... the rubbish soil is bagged and sold by them to a NZ wide franchise hardware company similar to home depot who on sell it for $14 a bag as top grade Tomato mix....???? They do not even lie about it..Its a game ....I buy a tractor scoop of soil for $49 (bagged) and others buy practicly the same amount with some additives for probably $120 - $130 in fancy bags....

Capillary cloth..I use Pams Genie Wipes ??? $1.79 for two ...In the photo you can see the polystyrene under the pots is in two pieces on purpose cause I just use a wipe at each end and fold the wipes under in the centre so that they make contact with the water in the tray.... I once used this method for all my plants but I only use it now for seedlings and youngsters when its used for only a short period of time IE 2 - 3 weeks as in the growth chamber.......because 2 seasons ago I had a terrible season with disease and although I have no proof I believe that it could have been the underwatering that did it.. The reservoir trays got terribly smelly and dirty and I could not lift the Tomato bag up off them to try and keep the reservoir clean and free of any likely hood of disease..I just kept filling the reservoir trays up with fresh water from a hose but what good was that doing ..If there was disease underneath the water was probably still feeding disease up via the capillary cloth into my plants so unless there is a way to ensure only clean water is being fed from underneath I am going to stick with the wick system I am now using ?? I do still feed each plant every 7 - 10 days manually with Miracle Gro ..the wick is just an insurance but it is saving me a lot of time...

Once I get my trays in the growing chamber I will post photos etc ...I might build another one and use an upright fridge freezer that cost me a $1 on auction but I felt sorry for the guy and gave him $5 hoping to get some tips on growing tomatoes ...He worked for a company in the UK growing tomatoes but my "generosity" was unrewarded...

I better get back doing the transplanting so as I can then have some tea... What would I do without Tomatoes??Regards Ron
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #87
MissS
Tomatovillian™
 
MissS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,548
Default

They surely can.
__________________
HOOPER ~ aka Patti
Zone 5
MissS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #88
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Hi..Well my seed trays are out in the sun to get a photo.....There is a heatwave at the moment ?? Apparantly I made a mistake..The seller will not even tell me what sort of moss it is..So I have sphagnum peat moss here ...Any comments on how i should sterilize it would be very much appreciated..This could be a reason of my failures?
My seeds are really taking off in their repot mix in fact too much ..I have had a problem with the cooling in my growth Chamber and hopefully I can get it operating today....I have to get them in there as soon as possible....only two more seeds (which are shipped to me) to germinate...Tomato Heirloom Marriage Genuwine F1 Hybrid and a Tomato Rapunzel F1 Hybrid...I wonder if anybody has grown them and knows what they taste like......
Thanks for all the comments they are much appreciated..Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Seed Trays_2017-10-31_140302.jpg (96.2 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg Seed Trays2_2017-10-31_140432.jpg (101.8 KB, 30 views)
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #89
MissS
Tomatovillian™
 
MissS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,548
Default

Peat moss is weed-free and thus considered sterile. There is no need to treat it unless it has been kept damp and filled with mold.
__________________
HOOPER ~ aka Patti
Zone 5
MissS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2 Weeks Ago   #90
murihikukid
Tomatovillian™
 
murihikukid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 935
Default

Patti...I hope you do not mind if I check with you first over "the hardening off" process as you raised it months ago .....as I understand I now put my seedlings in air with a temperature of 10 degrees C .....Hopefully the chamber (as I call it) will have a stable 10 degrees C air temperature all of the time created by water flow through radiators within the chamber that have fans attached ....
Controled by a thermostat set at 10 degrees (within the air of the chamber) the water cooler (an old Fridge freezer ) is switched off and on within 0.5 of a degree ...The water circulates all of the time ..Simply when the air reaches 10.5 degrees the freezer switches on and the water will be cooled and the air temperature will also get cooler ...till the air drops to 10 degrees and the freezer switches off....I can make it basicly any temperature setting within reason I want...
So thats the air.....
Theres also lights ...The chamber is lit up with 10 x 150cm LED Tubes which can be put on an automatic timer and provide light for the seedlings for how many hours one requires ....as well as the LED Tubes there are 6 computer fans (3 at each end ..two red and one blue) with 33 LED's in each....The fans go all the time so the seedlings will have air blowing gently over them ...The leds on the fans I have put on a separate circuit and they will light up when the LED tubes light up....May not do any good but I needed the fans so why not use ones with LED lights incorporated to give some extra Kelvin??
As I understand I have covered all the requirements of a hardening off process....

The fans and lights are all in a lid which can be raised or lowered to get at the trays........but the seedling trays themselves will be raised to meet the lights and gradually lowered within the chamber as they grow ....I certainly do not want the seedlings reaching for the light..

With a lid one cannot easily see what is happening within the chamber so I am intending putting a webcam inside which will allow me to monitor on my computer screen how the seedlings are reacting etc plus I need to keep check on growth ....As I understand its critical to keep the height of the seedlings as close to the light as possible ......I am fully aware that there will be different growth patterns from different seedlings but the only way I can fix this is by raising the lid and moving seedlings into different growth groups every few days.....
The seedlings are sitting on capillary cloth in a plastic tray with polystyrene below the cloth and the polystyrene has holes in it so within the tray there is space for a reservoir of water to supply the seedlings..

So all I basicly require is the time pattern for "hardening off" IE how many hours in darkness and how many hours under light ........I presume I have some that say I have wasted my time..Well Maybe ...but IMO why not ..lets give it a go...

I will be posting photographs soon... Its not elaborate ? could be called cheap and nasty? but if it keeps the temperature regulated and there are articles I have read that suggests one can achieve 200- 300 % more buds and fruit...
Regards Ron

Last edited by murihikukid; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:32 AM.
murihikukid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:44 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★