Actual ingredients in Oxiclean

[heirloomtomaguy]

So i have seen alot of discussion here on saving seed using oxiclean. There are a ton of mixed reviews on ingredients so i thought i would post an ingredient list per the required MSDS sheets available online. This is the link if anyone is interested
http://www.ahprofessional.com/_downl...%20Remover.pdf

Or here are the ingredients:

COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
CAS Number Chemical Ingredients % By Wt.

0497-19-8 Sodium carbonate 50-75%
15630-89-4 Sodium percarbonate 30-50%
68002-97-1 Ethoxylated Alcohol C12-C16 1-3%
68479-09-4 Sodium polycarboxylate 1%
06834-92-0 Sodium metasilicate 1%

[carolyn137]

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...an+ingredients

And more links about it as to history, etc.via Google in the link above.

I have never used it to process seeds since several of us have tried to find data, for TOMATOES, of it's efficacy in removing any pathogens from the seed coat and have found no data but such rough data is known for fermentation.

Some use Comet, some use bleach as well, some use a combo of fermentation and oxidative methods.

For sure it can't remove any bacterial or virus pathogens from the endosperm, even fermentation can't do that completely but fermentation does lower the exterior pathogen burden and since infection is quantitative in nature it does help.

And IMO it helps most with the soilborne pathogens such as Fusarium and Verticillium, etc, since they can be introduced into new areas just with contaminated seed.

Sure it helps with the foliage pathogens, but new infections are acquired via wind and rain, no way to control those except for preventive spraying,

Carolyn

[bower]

I considered trying TSP this year to process some seeds quickly.. I had in my mind, that there was an unopened tub of TSP somewhere in the house. Finally I went to look for it and found the dusty old tub. Cleaned off the dust to see the instructions, and lo behold, it is a tub of "TSP Substitute". Not a word on it to say what it actually contains.. just, not TSP.

So back to the ol mold mats..... You know there's nowhere in the world outside this forum where you can talk about your "mold mat" in polite society and never raise an eyebrow...

[Cole_Robbie]

I only have one season of seed-saving experience to offer, but I like Oxi-clean so far. I tested two 48-cell flats of seeds, and I don't think I had a seed that didn't germinate.

[ChrisK]

+1. Fast, easy and safe.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I only have one season of seed-saving experience to offer, but I like Oxi-clean so far. I tested two 48-cell flats of seeds, and I don't think I had a seed that didn't germinate.

[drew51]

I use both fermentation and oxiclean. If I have time I ferment. If not oxiclean! To me both are easy.

I breed raspberries, and have to use sulfuric acid, so this is a piece of cake!!

[heirloomtomaguy]

I have been experimenting with different substances that will be safer than oxiclean without the mold. What i have come up with is........a mixture of baking soda and hydrogen peroxide. I emptied the contents of 8 or so cherry tomatoes into a cup added a couple tablespoons of water one teaspoon of baking soda and one teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide. Then i left it on the counter from 8pm until 5pm the next day roughly 17 or so hours ( basically after dinner the first night until i got home from work the 2nd). When i poured the contents over my strainer the seeds were completely clean and looked perfect. All germination tests came out successful. I will be trying a shortened soak so i will post the results tomorrow or friday. But for now that is the best safest method i have. Google some of the ingredients in oxiclean and you might like my mixture better.

[Worth1]

The main ingredients in oxiclean Sodium percarbonate and Sodium carbonate are also used in food and laundry there is really nothing wrong with it.
The former will release hydrogen peroxide in the water and soda ash.
Been around for years in many products.

Worth

[ddsack]

I have been experimenting with different substances that will be safer than oxiclean without the mold. What i have come up with is........a mixture of baking soda and hydrogen peroxide.

Hey, that's the same recipe as for taking the skunk smell off of dogs! Ask me how I know ... except you need at least a whole quart of peroxide!


Interesting, let us know how much the soaking time can be shortened. Anything under an hour or two would be preferable, otherwise (at least in my house) the seeds in the potion might get forgotten.

[heirloomtomaguy]

Originally Posted by Worth1

The main ingredients in oxiclean Sodium percarbonate and Sodium carbonate are also used in food and laundry there is really nothing wrong with it.
The former will release hydrogen peroxide in the water and soda ash.
Been around for years in many products.

Worth

Its all the rest of the ingredients in oxiclean im trying to stay away from. One is a type of polymer that is used to coat your cloths in a dirt blocking film. No thanks on my seeds.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by heirloomtomaguy

Its all the rest of the ingredients in oxiclean imp trying to stay away from. One is a type of polymer that is used to coat your cloths in a dirt blocking film. No thanks on my seeds.

I doubt it will kill you in less than 50 years. I have about 20 left, so don't really care. As I type this plastic residue is absorbing into my fingertips. I don't see how that would get into the fruit anyway. I doubt it does.
Then again the toxins in mold can be very deadly. Organic molecules are much more deadly than anything we can come up with. Well you may trip as often some neat molecules are in mold. You could try rinsing them with bleach that should remove the polymer. Again I won't bother, it's a good day to die. If you use oxiclean on your clothes, no doubt you are eating it, as you often touch your clothes, and then wipe your eye, or pop a cherry tomato into your mouth. If any of the fermented water touches your skin, you may absorb some toxins.
I myself think it's a good idea to expose humans to many toxins. Those of us who survive will be better adapted. Those that avoid them are polluting the gene pool. Well actually that is not true, you never know what gene combination may be beneficial. For example those with one cycle cell anemia allele, can survive malaria infections. The red blood cell cycles when the parasite enters, and the blood cell is eaten by macrophages. So even disease causing genes may one day save the human race. Maleria kills more people that any other infection. 627 thousand died from maleria in 2012. But many go unreported, so probably about 1 million a year. None of those people had cycle cell trait, as it protects you. Wow, I really went off course, sorry!

[joseph]

Sure it helps with the foliage pathogens, but new infections are acquired via wind and rain, no way to control those except for preventive spraying,

Or growing varieties that are less susceptible...
Or arranging the micro-environment to be less favorable to pathogens...


This year I have been processing tomato seeds in the blender. It does a splendid job of removing the gel coat and cleaning the seeds... My recipe is about one cup of tomatoes, 6 cups of water, blend on high for 30 seconds. Let settle for a few minutes. Dump off the floating pulp collect the sunken seeds and rinse a few times. Dry on a waxed paper plate. Quick. Simple. Clean.

I tried that this morning with a close relative of watermelon: Major disaster!!! The seeds were chopped up.

[carolyn137]

Yes, oxidative methods are simple to do and do what they do much quicker than fermentation, that's for sure.

But in my post above I noted that my concern is transmission of pathogens on the seed surface, for the reasons given in my post since there is no data to show how efficient Oxi-Clean or TSP or Comet, or whatever,is in removing the pathogens possibly adhered to the seed coat.

I guess those of you who use those methods are just assuming that all is well, but well I remember Linda Sapp who owns TGS commenting that at least one, possibly two, seeds sent to her for trial or maybe it was from one of her commercial suppliers had Fusarium on the seed coat.

And since for many years she and her now deceased husband Vince, grew new varieties at their home, the soil became contaminated with Fusarium.

She has since moved, not b'c of that, and now grows just a few varieties in containers.

But the same risk is there for anyone who participates in seed swaps, not knowing where the seeds came from, and anyone who gets seeds from commercial places where they produce their own seed, especially in those areas where the soilborne diseases are common.

Some will soak new seeds sent to them in peroxide, fine, that's known to increase germination, but again I know of no data to show how effective peroxide is in removing pathogens, mainly fungal, from the seed coat, since the bacterial and viral pathogens are in the endosprem of the seed and are not affected by any of those methods, just hot water treatment, as in don't try that at home.

Carolyn, who just felt she needed to speak up about this again, so good luck to all of you, really.

[ChrisK]

A bleach treatment should surface sterilize the seed coat assuming appropriate concentration, good contact and enough time. It's used all the time for surface sterilization of plant material in tissue culture methods.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Yes, oxidative methods are simple to do and do what they do much quicker than fermentation, that's for sure.

But in my post above I noted that my concern is transmission of pathogens on the seed surface, for the reasons given in my post since there is no data to show how efficient Oxi-Clean or TSP or Comet, or whatever,is in removing the pathogens possibly adhered to the seed coat.

I guess those of you who use those methods are just assuming that all is well, but well I remember Linda Sapp who owns TGS commenting that at least one, possibly two, seeds sent to her for trial or maybe it was from one of her commercial suppliers had Fusarium on the seed coat.

And since for many years she and her now deceased husband Vince, grew new varieties at their home, the soil became contaminated with Fusarium.

She has since moved, not b'c of that, and now grows just a few varieties in containers.

But the same risk is there for anyone who participates in seed swaps, not knowing where the seeds came from, and anyone who gets seeds from commercial places where they produce their own seed, especially in those areas where the soilborne diseases are common.

Some will soak new seeds sent to them in peroxide, fine, that's known to increase germination, but again I know of no data to show how effective peroxide is in removing pathogens, mainly fungal, from the seed coat, since the bacterial and viral pathogens are in the endosprem of the seed and are not affected by any of those methods, just hot water treatment, as in don't try that at home.

Carolyn, who just felt she needed to speak up about this again, so good luck to all of you, really.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

A bleach treatment should surface sterilize the seed coat assuming appropriate concentration, good contact and enough time. It's used all the time for surface sterilization of plant material in tissue culture methods.

Chris, that may be true for plant material, but I hesitate to equate the surface properties of plant material with the seed coat of tomato seeds, as to comparing one with the other as regards efficacy with bleach/

Honest I'm not trying to be difficult, but I want to see data with bleach for tomato seeds and exterior pathogens, I really do.

Carolyn