Perennial onions and leeks

[fantoma]

I wanted to grow some this year but Palm Doves ate my seedlings. The Egyptian Walking Onions seem to be doing great though.

[Jeannine Anne]

Be careful on e bay, I have been that route and what I got was not what O ordered, there is someone selling potato onions with a terrible feedback records so please make sure you look.

Maybe I am a bit fussy, but everything has a name.. Walking onion is a veggie, but it has a few varieties with names, the same goes for potato onions and shallots. Then I see an ad that simply say multipliers it could be one of a few things so I avoid it.

I had three different topset onions which I aim to replace if I can.

As I said maybe I am too fussy.

XX Jeannine

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by Kazedwards

Was the Fleismans perhaps Fleener's? If so I have been looking for those for a few years now. There were two listing in the SSE yearbook but they are not correct to type. I fairly certain that the SSE ones are McCullar's. Hope this might help.

Also I do have McCullar's White (the SSE Fleener's) growing right now if you would like some. The are a walking onion that gets perhaps 1" wide. I don't mind shipping to Canada.

For Fleener's, have you tried contacting Heirloom Onions/Mulberry Woods Nursery?

[Jeannine Anne]

Yes I, it would be a good place but they won't ship to Canada, They would be who I went to if I use my PO box over the line, I am trying to avoid doing that if I can, even though it is clost it is a real hassle and sometimes I am not well enough to do it. They actually have a few things I would like and closer to the fall I will contact them. Some sellers won't mail to a PO number.

Richter's Herbs here in Canada is good fro the genuine shallots I need so I am ok on those.

Some SSE members will ship to Canada so I am looking into that too.

What I need to find are, the three types of topset onions, perennial leek Babbingtons , perennal bunching onions (not Welsh) French shallots, not Dutch and not the single from seed ones. t takes a while but eventually I will build it up again.

Any sources, company names are appreciated.

Oh and folks if you are looking, steer clear if a seller who has "Perfumed Garden" there is a topic I posted on a few years ago right here on TV telling what happened to me.

[bower]

Jeannine Anne, I did a trial last winter to see which alliums I could make a perennial patch of here, and they all survived. It was a typical winter with some severe cold and snow, but also a really tough early spring with very cold temperatures with no snow cover to protect.
The leeks American Flag survived but looking a little worse for wear than the green onions in early spring. Those that flowered last year also formed a "pearl" and new ones are growing from them, while the younger leeks also made it, if a little frost damaged.
Hardy Evergreen is the bunching onion said to be most winter hardy, and they certainly did well and are looking quite robust.
I had another one from a swap, just called "Perennial Green Onion" and they too overwintered fine in my Mom's garden. I have some in a tub too that I put out of the greenhouse late winter, and they were not a bit bothered by frosts and snow staying green and good to eat, while the leeks I put out at the same time suffered some frost damage. The nameless perennial seem a bit more slender than the Hardy Evergreen, but there may be a difference due to planting times. Time will tell if they are really very different I guess.
I also had some Shandong Long that didn't grow too well last summer, but they have overwintered okay with a little mulch.
And I have a patch of White Lisbon green onions that did great. These are noticeably different because they form a small white onion under the ground towards fall, and then divide. Every one I planted is now two or more.
The green onion and bunching onion varieties are planted far from each other and I'm hoping they won't flower at the same time, to get seed. I do have some Hardy Evergreen seed from last year which had no competition so they will be true. Send me a PM if you want some.
I just got some of those 'multiplier onion' from William Dam, and you're right, they are labeled 'shallots'. I think it's difficult to source potato onions in Canada.

[Kazedwards]

Originally Posted by Tormato

For Fleener's, have you tried contacting Heirloom Onions/Mulberry Woods Nursery?

I have been keep an eye on that site for a while now. It seems they are always sold out. I think I contacted them by email once but never got anything back.

[Jeannine Anne]

Bower, I think I have Hardy Evergreen seeds sown in a tub in my greenhouse, I will go and take a look later. I wasn't expecting them to germinate as they were a couple of years old but they have,

It seems to me that many of the green onions seem to carry over bit I wonder if it is just for the second year as they are a biennial plant.


I find the shallot/potato onions thing annoying. Buying the right shallots is fine I can get them from Richters in the fall, but it is the newer ones that folks are fobbing off as potato onions. I also get cross at the seeds offered for shallots, like Ambition, as far as I am concerned they are not true shallots ...To me Dutch shallots are just another kind of onion. I know I know someone is going to argue with me but they bear no resemblance to what a shallot is and they do not multiply the next year.

XX Jeannine

[Zeedman]

Jeannine, I have two perennial bunching onions that I get seed from each year - one of which is Hardy Evergreen. They make wide scallions, but for me, they don't multiply much, unless you allow them to self-seed. I was much happier with the quality of scallions the first year from seed, so while some plants survive the winter, I really don't consider them to be usable as a perennial.

The other bunching onion is either "Franz" or "Stevenson", obtained from SSE when I did a 9-variety bunching onion trial some years back. I don't know which one it is... but it stubbornly refused to die when I turned it under (twice!), so I moved it to a permanent location and kept it. The two varieties are nearly identical; large scallions about the same size as Catawissa (about 1/2" across), exceptionally hardy, and they divide rapidly into large clumps.

Whichever one it is, it blooms later than Evergreen, so I am able to save seed from both... if you would like to try it, I will have seed available later in the summer. I heartily recommend it for its winter hardiness, medium-large size, and rapid multiplication. I noticed in my trial that while some bunching onions have much larger stems (almost like small leeks), those onions had poor winter hardiness, and tended to divide slowly if at all.

I have other multipliers, some which form clusters of small bulbs, and some which form topsets; but I don't know if I would be able to send them to Canada. The bulb-forming onions (one yellow, one pinkish brown) are both exceptionally winter hardy in my climate.

Yellow (from Hmong gardeners)

Pink (sport, possible Catawissa seedling)

For topsetting onions, I too have McCullar's, as well as Catawissa. At one point, I had 3 other heirloom topsetting onions... but they were lost when my rural garden flooded several years ago.

SSE has a HUGE collection of perennial alliums, which they began releasing for the first time this year (my encouragement for them to do so may have contributed to that). They sent live plants, in quite generous quantities. I have planted 10 varieties, so if they do well, I will have many more onions to trade next year.

[Jeannine Anne]

Zeedman, seeds into Canada are fine no problem, I can cross the border with onions but companies won't shop them as apparently some bulbs are allowed and some not so it easier to say no to all, however having said that I have had all types of things sent from the US.I have been told that the usual thing is to pack them and declare them as garden seeds, bending the rules a bit perhaps but it works.

You certainly have a collection to be proud of and I envy you very much. I would be interested in anything you are able to offer. Originally I had McCullars, Catawissa and Fleemers.

Bower, I just came in from the greenhouse and what is growing is Salad Onion Evergreen Hardy White..it says on the packet, may be handled as a perennial by dividing the clumps the second summer to produce a new crop. I think that is what you have, but thank you so much for offering them to me.

[Zeedman]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Originally I had McCullars, Catawissa and Fleemers.

Well, then you are one of the few who have grown both McCullar's & Fleener's. I grew Fleener's for only 2 years, and was impressed by it... but before I could increase its numbers, voles ate the entire row (this year, they ate one of my favorite lillies during the winter). The original source for Fleener's lost his as well, and both he & I (and Kaz) have been looking for the "real" Fleener's.

I hope that Mulberry Woods Nursery has the real one (currently listed as 'out of stock'), so that I & others could grow it... the variety seems to be desperately in need of greater preservation efforts.

[Jeannine Anne]

Well I presume it was Fleemers, I bought it as such and it was not from the SSE, I would not know if there was anything wrong with it, the quality was poor but that was the grower not the variety I too am watching Mulberry Woods. Is there some recognizable thing I should be looking for, why was it wrong , wrong color,,size, let me know what I am looking for and I will share if I find it too.

XX Jeannine

[pmcgrady]

I have a small garlic patch that I planted at least 10 years ago, it's been allowed to grow wild,and gets bigger every year, the cloves are small, but hot...

[Kazedwards]

Originally Posted by Zeedman

Jeannine, I have two perennial bunching onions that I get seed from each year - one of which is Hardy Evergreen. They make wide scallions, but for me, they don't multiply much, unless you allow them to self-seed. I was much happier with the quality of scallions the first year from seed, so while some plants survive the winter, I really don't consider them to be usable as a perennial.

The other bunching onion is either "Franz" or "Stevenson", obtained from SSE when I did a 9-variety bunching onion trial some years back. I don't know which one it is... but it stubbornly refused to die when I turned it under (twice!), so I moved it to a permanent location and kept it. The two varieties are nearly identical; large scallions about the same size as Catawissa (about 1/2" across), exceptionally hardy, and they divide rapidly into large clumps.

Whichever one it is, it blooms later than Evergreen, so I am able to save seed from both... if you would like to try it, I will have seed available later in the summer. I heartily recommend it for its winter hardiness, medium-large size, and rapid multiplication. I noticed in my trial that while some bunching onions have much larger stems (almost like small leeks), those onions had poor winter hardiness, and tended to divide slowly if at all.

I have other multipliers, some which form clusters of small bulbs, and some which form topsets; but I don't know if I would be able to send them to Canada. The bulb-forming onions (one yellow, one pinkish brown) are both exceptionally winter hardy in my climate.

Yellow (from Hmong gardeners)

Pink (sport, possible Catawissa seedling)

For topsetting onions, I too have McCullar's, as well as Catawissa. At one point, I had 3 other heirloom topsetting onions... but they were lost when my rural garden flooded several years ago.

SSE has a HUGE collection of perennial alliums, which they began releasing for the first time this year (my encouragement for them to do so may have contributed to that). They sent live plants, in quite generous quantities. I have planted 10 varieties, so if they do well, I will have many more onions to trade next year.

Zeedman, nice to see you posting over here. Do you know if SSE has Fleener's in there collection? I have not been a member for a few years now but would join again if they had it.

[ilex]

Yes, there are fake shallots that come from a regular onion x shallot cross. Planted from seed you get something that looks like a shallot.

[aftermidnight]

At one time I had all three of these top setting onions, 'Red Catawissa', 'McCullar's White' and 'Fleener's Topset', I still have the Catawissa but my McCullar's is weak and struggling, this one I acquired just last year to replace the one I lost.
I also have a nice healthy clump of ? growing in some gravel, below the raised bed where I used to grow all my top setters. These three are the only top setters I've grown so if I post a picture later on will someone be able to tell me which one it is, Catawissa is pretty easy to recognize so if it's not that it has to be either McCullar's or Fleener's.

Annette