One or two step potting?

mensplace · February 11, 2010

I have already potted quite a few of my earliest plants, but now the later stage seedlings are in need. Considering the extra costs and time involved, is there really anything gained by going straight to larger pots initially. My first round used the type of cups used for coffee, both because they are waterproof and because they have a wider bottom than most drinking cups. 50 for 2.50 when on sale at the grocery..no coffee style little handles..but lined with a light inner coating. But, for them to be set out in late March, they would have to be transplanted to larger pots. That will be another step and another cup purchase. Is this initial step even necessary or helpful. It would seem that the roots in the smaller cups would be more prone to hit the sides of the smaller cups and possibly get a bit rootbound as opposed to just doing the initial potting in larger containers. Your thoughts?

dice · February 11, 2010

Carolyn opined that getting a little root bound stimulates them
to switch from a primarily taproot-dominated root system to
a more dispersed, fibrous root system, and for some reason
this was a good thing (maybe more thorough access to
nutrients in the top foot of the soil, where in traditional
plowed farmer's fields most of the nutrients actually are.)

If one were in arid country with sandy soils, the sort of taproot
that develops in direct-seeded tomatoes could be a win (more
drought protection).

I don't see what starting them in 6" deep pots (or something
like that) initially would really hurt, other than that one uses
up more seed-starting mix initially. (A lot of people start
their seeds in premium seed-starting mix, then switch
to cheaper generic potting mix at the first pot up to a larger
size.)

Blueaussi · February 11, 2010

If you have room, I'd go straight for the larger pots, but I'm lazy. I repot as seledom as I can.

brokenbar · February 11, 2010

I start everything in 12 0Z styrofoam cups...The less I have to handle them the better for me. I do however, only fill my cups about 1/3 full for tomatoes and as they grow, I add more dirt until the cup is full. Works well for me. I just loath peat cups...they fall apart, dry out too fast and roots grow through them and "mate" with neighboring cups (NO MATING ALLOWED!!!) I started using those Rubbermaid "fit under the bed" plastic containers. They are about 7 inches tall and three feet long...I can pack a lot of styrofaom cups in one of those. I just got tired of buying those black flats that leak, even when brand new and are really not designed to hold taller containers (Pick up a flat and they want to bow in the middle...HATE THAT) I also water only from the bottom...And I too am lazy...

Blueaussi · February 11, 2010

Quote:

I started using those Rubbermaid "fit under the bed" plastic containers

*nods*

I use 16 oz plastic cups, though, for most things.

desertlzbn · February 11, 2010

I think I am going to buy some of those when I am allowed to spend money on this gardening thing again. I have been "discouraged" from spending any more money since I am building a greenhouse. I HATE the carrying trays I am using now.

amideutch · February 12, 2010

I think it would depend on how many plants we are talking about. Me, I start out around 175 seedlings in expanded peat pellets, transplant to 4" biodegardeable CowPots or DotPots and then to their final reasting place. Ami

mensplace · February 12, 2010

I like the suggestion of using plain compost for the second cups after the seedlings have grown in premium seed starting mix and then been repotted to the first cups with a good grade of less expensive mix. In moving to the second pot and using my compost, this should certainly begin their process of becoming acclimated to outdoor conditions while hardening. They have already been supplement with biozome, EM, and the natural organinc fertilizer and micro-organisms of one commercial blend as well. Now putting them into the second, larger cups, with regular outdoor compost, they should be very well established by the setting out date.

gardenpaws_VA · February 12, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

I think it would depend on how many plants we are talking about. Me, I start out around 175 seedlings in expanded peat pellets, transplant to 4" biodegardeable CowPots or DotPots and then to their final reasting place. Ami

I'm not growing anywhere near as many plants as some of you, but FWIW I find it works best for me to start late and try to do only a single transplanting before moving to the garden (or a small number of sales). Sowing is in cleaned 1-pint ventilated plastic clamshells, one variety per clamshell. I move the seedlings at about the 2nd true leaf stage to an 9 or 10oz foam cup, where they stay until planted out at about 6" tall.
The under-bed box idea would work well for me if I were using flat tables and needed to be able to move the pots around in quantity. Since mine live on 2x4 rimmed metal shelves on the plant rack, with limited vertical clearance, I set the clamshells or pots on recycled coldcut/veggie trays (~1/2" deep) which almost fill the shelves. When I move the plants outside to harden off, I move them into ventilated flats (again recycled, usually the ones designed to hold individual 3" pots), which help keep them upright as they sit on the benches under the oak tree.

brokenbar · February 12, 2010

1000 plus plants for me. Wyoming has such a short growing season...Tomato's, peppers, watermelon, other melons, gourds, squash, pumpkins, eggplant, all have to be started indoors. I also use the Rubber Maid "under the bed" thingies to bring in and store green tomatoes at the end of the season. Because they are very beefy, they can hold a lot of un-ripe tomato's and because they are clear, you can see tomatos that are turning ripe on the bottom and rotate them to the top of the container. 5 gallon buckets don't work well because if there are smaller tomatos underneath, the weight of larger tomatoes smushes them and also, you have to practically empty the bucket out to see ripening ones.
I ripen about 2 to 3 thousand tomato's at the end of the season every year.

pete · February 12, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenbar

1000 plus plants for me. Wyoming has such a short growing season...Tomato's, peppers, watermelon, other melons, gourds, squash, pumpkins, eggplant, all have to be started indoors. I also use the Rubber Maid "under the bed" thingies to bring in and store green tomatoes at the end of the season. Because they are very beefy, they can hold a lot of un-ripe tomato's and because they are clear, you can see tomatos that are turning ripe on the bottom and rotate them to the top of the container. 5 gallon buckets don't work well because if there are smaller tomatos underneath, the weight of larger tomatoes smushes them and also, you have to practically empty the bucket out to see ripening ones.
I ripen about 2 to 3 thousand tomato's at the end of the season every year.

1000 plants-2000-3000 tomatoes=

brokenbar · February 12, 2010

Yeah Pete because I dry between 1000 and 2000 pounds a year and I process another 250 to 300 pounds for sauce..Not all the 1000 plants are tomato's! But yep...I bring in every green one when frost threatens. I have an empty guest room and I store them in there and allow them to ripen. We were gone to Egypt last year in September so my Son picked them all and brought them in and then I started processing the ripe ones.
"Santa Claus" brought me en electric tomato mill...

Takes about 500 tomato plants, sometimes a hundred more...depends on the year and what I am planting and trying out. I try 5 to 10 new paste varieties every year. Now all I take care of are my drying tomatos. My husband grows a "regular" garden with regular tomatoes he sells as well as all of the other vegetables. This is my last year...Leaving for our new home in Mexico end of May. Son taking over cattle ranch and the dried tomato business (at least for now...I doubt he is as dedicated to it as I was...) I don't want to work quite that hard anymore...

kterlep · February 12, 2010

Pete, you only get 3 tomatoes off a plant?

I start mine in Jiffy-7 pellets, then when they're "mating" (I love brokenbar's word), I move them to the *bottoms* of 1-liter bottles with the tops cut off, breaking apart any pellets that have multiples. I like 1-liter bottles because they are clear, they pack together with no space (so the roots get no light), they provide a wind-screen so I can put the babies out on the porch even on very windy days (yet they still get a breeze), and I can continue to add dirt, pinching off leaves (essentially "potting up" within the same container) for the rest of the indoor growing period. By plant-out, I have a 15" plant with an 8" tall root system. The 1-liter bottles (which we go through like crazy because we drink seltzer water) are more stable than the solo cups (I had a 50/50 mixture last year). So, free!

b54red · February 12, 2010

I start all of my tomato and pepper seed in the bottoms of styrofoam egg cartons which I save all year, filled with seed starting mix. I use the little closure flap to label them. When they get about 4 to 6 inches tall I just scoop them out with a small spoon and transplant to cheap styrofoam coffee cups and fill with regular potting soil, and label them with indelible pen. Make sure you poke holes in the bottom of each egg holding cup and each coffee cup. This method uses very little of the expensive seed starting mix and it is easy to keep up with germination rates and very easy to pot up. It also has the advantage of getting a lot of plants in a little space without having to damage the taproot when potting up.
I have been stuck a few times with very late cold snaps which force me to pot up again into a large syrofoam cup to stop them from getting too tall for the holding cup before the weather cooperates and lets me plant out.

February 11, 2010	#1
mensplace Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA Posts: 1,013	One or two step potting? I have already potted quite a few of my earliest plants, but now the later stage seedlings are in need. Considering the extra costs and time involved, is there really anything gained by going straight to larger pots initially. My first round used the type of cups used for coffee, both because they are waterproof and because they have a wider bottom than most drinking cups. 50 for 2.50 when on sale at the grocery..no coffee style little handles..but lined with a light inner coating. But, for them to be set out in late March, they would have to be transplanted to larger pots. That will be another step and another cup purchase. Is this initial step even necessary or helpful. It would seem that the roots in the smaller cups would be more prone to hit the sides of the smaller cups and possibly get a bit rootbound as opposed to just doing the initial potting in larger containers. Your thoughts?

February 11, 2010	#2
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Carolyn opined that getting a little root bound stimulates them to switch from a primarily taproot-dominated root system to a more dispersed, fibrous root system, and for some reason this was a good thing (maybe more thorough access to nutrients in the top foot of the soil, where in traditional plowed farmer's fields most of the nutrients actually are.) If one were in arid country with sandy soils, the sort of taproot that develops in direct-seeded tomatoes could be a win (more drought protection). I don't see what starting them in 6" deep pots (or something like that) initially would really hurt, other than that one uses up more seed-starting mix initially. (A lot of people start their seeds in premium seed-starting mix, then switch to cheaper generic potting mix at the first pot up to a larger size.) __________________ -- alias

February 11, 2010	#4
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	I start everything in 12 0Z styrofoam cups...The less I have to handle them the better for me. I do however, only fill my cups about 1/3 full for tomatoes and as they grow, I add more dirt until the cup is full. Works well for me. I just loath peat cups...they fall apart, dry out too fast and roots grow through them and "mate" with neighboring cups (NO MATING ALLOWED!!!) I started using those Rubbermaid "fit under the bed" plastic containers. They are about 7 inches tall and three feet long...I can pack a lot of styrofaom cups in one of those. I just got tired of buying those black flats that leak, even when brand new and are really not designed to hold taller containers (Pick up a flat and they want to bow in the middle...HATE THAT) I also water only from the bottom...And I too am lazy... __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

February 12, 2010	#7
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	I think it would depend on how many plants we are talking about. Me, I start out around 175 seedlings in expanded peat pellets, transplant to 4" biodegardeable CowPots or DotPots and then to their final reasting place. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 12, 2010	#10
brokenbar Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Of The Border Posts: 1,169	1000 plus plants for me. Wyoming has such a short growing season...Tomato's, peppers, watermelon, other melons, gourds, squash, pumpkins, eggplant, all have to be started indoors. I also use the Rubber Maid "under the bed" thingies to bring in and store green tomatoes at the end of the season. Because they are very beefy, they can hold a lot of un-ripe tomato's and because they are clear, you can see tomatos that are turning ripe on the bottom and rotate them to the top of the container. 5 gallon buckets don't work well because if there are smaller tomatos underneath, the weight of larger tomatoes smushes them and also, you have to practically empty the bucket out to see ripening ones. I ripen about 2 to 3 thousand tomato's at the end of the season every year. __________________ "If I'm not getting dirty, I'm not having a good time."

February 11, 2010	#3
Blueaussi Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Zone 8a Posts: 1,205	If you have room, I'd go straight for the larger pots, but I'm lazy. I repot as seledom as I can.

February 11, 2010	#6
desertlzbn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tucson Posts: 659	I think I am going to buy some of those when I am allowed to spend money on this gardening thing again. I have been "discouraged" from spending any more money since I am building a greenhouse. I HATE the carrying trays I am using now.

February 12, 2010	#13
kterlep Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SE Indiana (Near Dayton, OH) Posts: 33	Pete, you only get 3 tomatoes off a plant? I start mine in Jiffy-7 pellets, then when they're "mating" (I love brokenbar's word), I move them to the bottoms of 1-liter bottles with the tops cut off, breaking apart any pellets that have multiples. I like 1-liter bottles because they are clear, they pack together with no space (so the roots get no light), they provide a wind-screen so I can put the babies out on the porch even on very windy days (yet they still get a breeze), and I can continue to add dirt, pinching off leaves (essentially "potting up" within the same container) for the rest of the indoor growing period. By plant-out, I have a 15" plant with an 8" tall root system. The 1-liter bottles (which we go through like crazy because we drink seltzer water) are more stable than the solo cups (I had a 50/50 mixture last year). So, free!

February 12, 2010	#14
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I start all of my tomato and pepper seed in the bottoms of styrofoam egg cartons which I save all year, filled with seed starting mix. I use the little closure flap to label them. When they get about 4 to 6 inches tall I just scoop them out with a small spoon and transplant to cheap styrofoam coffee cups and fill with regular potting soil, and label them with indelible pen. Make sure you poke holes in the bottom of each egg holding cup and each coffee cup. This method uses very little of the expensive seed starting mix and it is easy to keep up with germination rates and very easy to pot up. It also has the advantage of getting a lot of plants in a little space without having to damage the taproot when potting up. I have been stuck a few times with very late cold snaps which force me to pot up again into a large syrofoam cup to stop them from getting too tall for the holding cup before the weather cooperates and lets me plant out.