Tomato seed treatments and their effects on disease/germination

[raindrops27]

Ok, please clarify this is just what I thought. I got some seeds from a source I will not mention yet. But, all 10 seedlings grew out sickly. I saved what I thought was the best one and threw out the rest. The one I saved is stunted and has not grown at all. I reached out to the company as I've never experienced this type of thing before where all of the seeds sown present sickness from the start (other than damping off which clearly was not what these seedlings had) The company replied back with it is overwatering, not enough lights etc. I never even sent them a picture? That would work if all of my other 19 varieties were showing the same signs as all were bottom watered, started in soil less medium, under grow lights. So, now, I see this thread, so my question just to be sure. It is possible for a seed to carry a pathogen that may present sickness in a seedling from the start right?

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by raindrops27

Ok, please clarify this is just what I thought. I got some seeds from a source I will not mention yet. But, all 10 seedlings grew out sickly. I saved what I thought was the best one and threw out the rest. The one I saved is stunted and has not grown at all. I reached out to the company as I've never experienced this type of thing before where all of the seeds sown present sickness from the start (other than damping off which clearly was not what these seedlings had) The company replied back with it is overwatering, not enough lights etc. I never even sent them a picture? That would work if all of my other 19 varieties were showing the same signs as all were bottom watered, started in soil less medium, under grow lights. So, now, I see this thread, so my question just to be sure. It is possible for a seed to carry a pathogen that may present sickness in a seedling from the start right?

Yes, it is possible.

Most vendors who save their own seed will take measures to insure disease-free seed. These measures include saving seed from healthy plants and various seed treatments - some I list above. They will also do germination tests and grow the seedlings out to the first true leaves to check for crosses. Reputable vendors will appreciate it if you take the time to tell them of any problems you have with their seeds, including seeds that produce sickly seedlings. (especially if all of your other seedlings are healthy)

I recommend a bleach treatment, minimum, if you have doubts about the seeds you receive from anyone - either purchased or traded.

Steve

[raindrops27]

Originally Posted by Heritage

Yes, it is possible.

Most vendors who save their own seed will take measures to insure disease-free seed. These measures include saving seed from healthy plants and various seed treatments - some I list above. They will also do germination tests and grow the seedlings out to the first true leaves to check for crosses. Reputable vendors will appreciate it if you take the time to tell them of any problems you have with their seeds, including seeds that produce sickly seedlings. (especially if all of your other seedlings are healthy)

I recommend a bleach treatment, minimum, if you have doubts about the seeds you receive from anyone - either purchased or traded.

Steve

Thank you very much I will definitely start to treat my seeds with bleach..

[z_willus_d]

Can anyone comment on what the bleach treatment would be? I will be saving seeds from my vines this year for personal use, and I would like to kill off any pathogens I might be harboring in the fruit. I've used the oxiclean method in lieu of fermentation (never could get the fermentation to take well). I assume after the oxiclean step (and before drying), I would process the seeds with the bleach solution? What's the concentration? And for how long? Agitation?

Thanks,
Naysen

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Can anyone comment on what the bleach treatment would be? I will be saving seeds from my vines this year for personal use, and I would like to kill off any pathogens I might be harboring in the fruit. I've used the oxiclean method in lieu of fermentation (never could get the fermentation to take well). I assume after the oxiclean step (and before drying), I would process the seeds with the bleach solution? What's the concentration? And for how long? Agitation?

Thanks,
Naysen

Naysen,

Ted (ContainerTed) recommends a post-fermentation soaking in a 1:4 bleach/water solution agitated for 2-5 minutes:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/A...g_Fermentation

Similarly, Darrel (fusion_power) recommends a 1:5 dilution for 2-3 minutes:
http://www.selectedplants.com/seedsaving.htm

And Barbee's post above is similar.

I assume all are referring to the Clorox "Regular" formulations (5.25% sodium hypochlorite) and not the Clorox "Ultra" (6%) or Clorox "Concentrated" (8.25%)

Steve

[z_willus_d]

Steve, thanks. That's the data/links I needed. I'll be using this as a step following my oxiclean processing (and before drying for storage).
-naysen

[ddsack]

... I got some seeds from a source I will not mention yet. But, all 10 seedlings grew out sickly. I saved what I thought was the best one and threw out the rest. The one I saved is stunted and has not grown at all. I reached out to the company as I've never experienced this type of thing before where all of the seeds sown present sickness from the start...

Just curious as to the name of the variety of tomato that was so sickly for you. I'm wondering if it was a wispy leaved variety. Some seedlings of wispy's can look rather pathetic as seedlings compared to normal RL or PL leafed varieties. They also are more prone to a leaf drying and crumbling disease (unofficially we call it CRUD) but outgrow it when planted out in the sun. I grow about 5-6 wispy varieties a year, and it's almost unavoidable to have some CRUD, especially if you are growing seedlings under lights instead of a greenhouse.

[dice]

I can recommend against substituting "some" trichlor swimming
pool bleach scraped off of a trichlor puck for the laundry bleach.
I did this one year, the result was very low germination. I went
back to using the regular laundry bleach at about 20-25% for
a few minutes before rinsing and drying the seeds.

(I assume that the corrosive trichlor damaged the seed coats.)

I had not heard of propolis tincture, but lots of herb and natural
products vendors online seem to have it.

[natural]

Can anyone comment on the potential effectiveness of treating seed that was purchased and then found to contain seed-borne disease?

In other words, for seed that has already been saved and dried in a prior year, would any of the seed treatments be effective prior to seeding the following Spring ?

Thanks,
Bill

[AdrianaG]

This web site from LSU discusses in detail different seed treatments - bleach, HCL and hot water: http://text.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...s2014FINAL.pdf

[ilex]

Originally Posted by natural

Can anyone comment on the potential effectiveness of treating seed that was purchased and then found to contain seed-borne disease?

In other words, for seed that has already been saved and dried in a prior year, would any of the seed treatments be effective prior to seeding the following Spring ?

Thanks,
Bill

Yes. Almost all potencial problems reside on the seed surface and bleach will kill just about anything.

Quite often I get seed that was not fermented and has lots of meat attached. If I cut corners and don't bleach, very often I get all kinds of problems. I've never had problems after bleach.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ilex

Yes. Almost all potencial problems reside on the seed surface and bleach will kill just about anything.

Quite often I get seed that was not fermented and has lots of meat attached. If I cut corners and don't bleach, very often I get all kinds of problems. I've never had problems after bleach.

And I'll add to the above that I agree about seed surface and primarily foliage infections, but Bill had asked;

(Can anyone comment on the potential effectiveness of treating seed that was purchased and then found to contain seed-borne disease?

In other words, for seed that has already been saved and dried in a prior year, would any of the seed treatments be effective prior to seeding the following Spring ?)

I think the important distinction to be made is between surface infection, yes, seedborne, and those seedborne infections that reside in the endosperm of the seeds, that is, the interior.

Almost every virus and also many bacterial diseases as well as viroids ( like thepotatospindle viroid whichalsoinfects tomatoes) can be found in the endosperm and the only way to try to inactivate them is by hot water treatment, which most say leave it to the pros and don't try this at home. The reason being that there can be significant loss of seed viability if not done right.

In many commercial catalogs you can see that option for certain tomatoes, etc., IS hot water treatment, which does cost more.

Hot Water treatment Google search, the second one down from Cornell I think makes the point very well.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...t+tomato+seeds

Hope that helps,

Carolyn