Growing Laterals...

[murihikukid]

Patti..The welfare of my plants is crucial...I should have realised that they were basicly dormant and taken the procedure I am now taking some weeks ago... I have blanketed round the Freezer and I am going to put an electric blanket under the plant trays and it will be kept on 24 hours..If the weather is good I will lift the blankets round the freezer early afternoon when the sun ,if any,will be coming through the front windows and I will drop early evening......

Do not worry about water....each pot is taken out of the freezer and watered individually and put back into the trays so if any water does drain it just goes into the plastic trays...The electric blanket has settings and will be ideal for providing continuous heat (I hope)....of course with my new freezers this cannot be done so will have to have the ceramic heat bulbs but these should be safe on a thermostat plus the plants will then be in steel pots and not plastic....

The front windows had condensation on their inside this morning which tells me it was cold outside....Unfortunately I do not have a spare room to set up as a grow room ....

I see my Lisa King has a bright yellow flower....I need a bumble bee hive ?

Now I have had my "unknown" spindly cutting lying on its side for 2 days....It is bending slowly but I wonder if the two bottom branches should be removed to help in the process ...after all for the plant to be transplanted horizontally they have to be removed ....

Naturally I want some fruit so as I can show certain people who think I am mad that it can be done and also I require laterals for my next season plants..I should plant some Stupice Seeds as a backup as they should be ideal inside...
I have attached photos...
Yes "Marley" my cat...all he worries about is his food and he is big....Long story how I got him but he now has a life and is happy and completely changed to what he was ....I lost my beloved "Suzie" several months ago ..I had her for 15years and I still miss her..again a long story how I got her and I never knew exactly how old she was...Having Marley helps but a different cat than Suzie although Marley has changed so much knowing he now has a place to live,looked after and loved...

Regards Ron

[MissS]

Ron when you see a flower you need to play 'bee'. You can just flick the flower with your fingertip whenever you walk by. Most people do this in the morning and then again in the afternoon in order to promote pollination. You could also just shake the plant. So go and play bee with Lisa King. With your low temps. not all blossoms will set but hopefully you will get a few to show to your psychiatrist friends. Mad or not hopefully you will get some tomatoes.

Yes go ahead and remove the leaves on your Anonymous. As you say it will be easier for it to straighten up.

Thank you for showing the picture of Marley to us. He sure is a handsome one and has a beautiful coat. Cats can be great company for us you are lucky that he found you! I'm sorry to hear about you Suzy. No there will not be another just like her, but Marley is there and you never know who else might find you...

You may be at the bottom of the earth, but your winter temperatures are sure warmer than mine!

Regards ~ Patti

[murihikukid]

Patti ..I will do as you say ..now I have read that mulch or fine barks put round the plant stem will also lower the nitrogen levels by drawing the nitrogen into the barks...I will be going to two gardening centres later in the week and if they have it I will buy a bag ...it will come in handy in the future if not straight away...

After I sent Marleys photo I saw the dirt in his eyes....I am particular about this and should have cleaned them ..Unlike Suzie who always had bad eyes Marley has no problem with me cleaning his....Yes he is beautiful in fact I nearly changed his name to Cecil after the lion who was killed in Zimbabwe...because looking at him side on he has a head shape like Cecil ....I am sure he has not had an easy life but he now knows he is safe with me and of course gets proper cat biscuits that he loves....He has a real hatred for anybody that relates to the previous owners.....I would not take on another cat cause I think Marley would not accept another in the house...

I have now started cleaning the front room to make room for the next freezer to be bought in..I am also buying some 240W HPS bulbs on Ebay from China ..as usual the freight cost from the USA is just too high or else I would buy from America...I have 4 enclosures and ballasts so with 1000watts of 2010 K mixed with 6500K CFL I am hoping some thing will really happen to my plants...if it works it will guide me to what lighting I will use in my greenhouse in August...

I also must draft a letter to the seed supplier and tell him once again of the problems I had...BTW it was not Kings whose seeds are very good....but they do not have the varieties that Bristol seeds (the offending Supplier) has ....Bristol are the only supplier of a lot of varieties on your list...I feel that I should be refunded or sent another packet of Gardener Delight,Kiev and Whipper Snapper seeds with them making sure they are seeds correct to label....I have photos to back me up on these three...I will not mention diseases as there is no way I can prove if it was the seeds at fault but of course I will be treating any of their seeds before planting in future...

One other point..rain has blown into my greenhouse under the plastic on the roof.....onto my plants and the damage is quite unbelievable ....Its a wakeup call for me to ensure the roof is constructed properly to ensure no water can get under it and onto the foliage...

Although there is plenty of time ...I need to draw up plans and get construction started as soon as possible......
Regards Ron

PS..I have just gone outside ..The sky is clear and stars can be seen and it has all the signs of there being a frost so I am just in time putting an electric blanket under the plants ...even with the blankets one can feel that they are trapping heat from the lights above the freezer....I must hang a thermometer above the plants just to get some readings ....

[murihikukid]

Patti..The blanket is in the freezer...now there are rails that go side to side and the electric blanket is sitting on these and curled up round the sides of the freezer.....sitting on the electric blanket are two polystyrene boxes and the yellow plastic trays are sitting on these....I could have placed the two polystyrene boxes on the rails and then put the electric blanket on top of the boxes and then the yellow plastic trays would have been sitting directly against the electric blanket....

I thought it best to do it this way first...I will put it on the low setting and look for my thermometer so as i can take readings...

I hope the photos will prove helpful...surprisingly the flash never went off which probably helped the clarity of the photos....

I think the last photo is the best .....I will now connect the electric blanket and lower the side blankets and hope they like the rise of temperature..

Regards Ron...

[murihikukid]

Patti..Well I might be imaging things but I think my cuttings are telling me they feel a lot better?? The Temp was 50 F when I put the lights on this morning....Last night it was 60F ...of course it must depend where the thermometer is so I have attached a picture...The electric blanket is now on full but I think it will be safe.....

I think I might have to move the blanket from under the polystyrene boxes that support my trays to on top of the boxes with the trays sitting on the blanket....As I understand warmth from underneath is more important than overhead heat ...

I can confirm this ..the house is now colder ??? Shows one that the Floro Tubes were making a difference in my house and the blankets are now holding the heat in...No matter the Tomatoes take priority...
This is only temporary ...as other freezers are moved in and no doubt I am going to end up with a growing room within my living room although with "blanket" walls...

I find it exciting where I am going with this and if its successful ...well I will be over the moon..

Its another nice day so back to putting rails in my freezers... Regards Ron

[MissS]

Well it seems that you have been as busy as a bee. The bark fines will work out great for you Ron. I would not be too concerned about the bark robbing your soil of nitrogen, it seems to me that you already have a surplus of that. The bark will help in consuming that.

Did you check your PH meter? The bark may cause your soil to be more acidic. That is most likely OK if your soil it really at a PH of 7. If not, you may need to add some lime.

Yes, Bristol Seeds was one of the companies that I looked at. I am sorry to hear that you had so many problems. Kings Seeds is still good, and just how many tomato varieties can one grow in one season? Just try a couple varieties each year and hopefully you will find a few that work well and taste good to you. I usually grow one or two of a tried and true variety and then the rest are new to me.

I am sorry to hear about the rain in the greenhouse. Yes it is a wake up call and also a very good learning experience to see first hand how water leads to major problems. It's a good thing that it is at the end of your season.

Your plants inside are looking quite cozy. A great place to be on a cold winters night. I do see that they need some pruning. Any foliage that is touching the rim of the pot needs to go. The cutting in water that is in the corner needs to be tossed. You do not want it to cause disease.

I am glad that you are in good spirits and hope that you have a great day in paradise...

Regards ~ Patti

[murihikukid]

Patti the thermometer is now at 60 F ..Do you think this is too low..if so I will try and increase the Temperature...If I put my head under the cover it feels quite warm....My green tomatoes in my greenhouse ...What can I do with them ...wait longer or do I cook them?? I wonder if there is a recipe on a forum for this?....Anything with a trace of colour I am picking and bringing inside...The wind had broken a roof support and folded the plastic back on my greenhouse..no wonder my Stupice and Early Girls look terrible ....The foliage has been killed by the water coming in and of course the wind just spreads it over most of my plants ....Never mind next season will be different...

I am waiting for the stem to bend more on my plant nominated for a horizontal growing ...I even lifted the pot bottom to see if I could get a better stem bend...I presume if I cannot get it any better I should plant it and although the stem would be at a 45 degree angle no doubt it will then bend more upwards helped by putting a small stake on it ..I wonder if there is anything that one can put on the stem section that will be under soil to help quicken the root process on it....I really like the idea of planting horizontally cause with extra stem = extra roots ...Seems to me that is similar to why tomatoes are grafted but I could be wrong..

I have nearly got the front doorway area cleaned and some clear space to enable me to drag the first of the big freezers inside...Its a big job by ones self...

The Liza King has produced more flowers ....Hopefully being inside I will get a true indication of how much fruit it produces as nothing really produced in my greenhouse apart from one Early Girl still laden with green fruit ....So many things to do..
Regards Ron

[murihikukid]

Patti...I have my freezer inside..The weather turned nasty so I decided to put the rails in and the lights inside the house.(yet to be done)...Then I had a "nasty" idea and I have incorporated what it is in photos of the freezer attached...Now in my Tomato readings I have learnt that it is much more beneficial to a Tomato plant if heat is from underneath......
Now in my post 142 I posted a picture of a stainless steel washing machine bowl that I thought I could use as planters.....You appeared to like my idea..plus the bowl has holes in it round the sides which would airate the soil....

So I thought I wonder what would happen if I planted in these bowls ..say four to a freezer .....with two 100w Ceramic heat bulbs under the rails controled by a thermastat ....and the bowls sitting on the rails ......but with a cover on the freezer top with holes cut in it so the top of the bowls just came out from it.....this would save a lot of the warmth escaping and would save my electricity cost and "could" be more beneficial to my plants ??? with the warmth penetrating into the soil via the holes in the planter bowls...

So I have drawn what I mean on the photo of the freezer I took this afternoon....Hopefully these will help in understanding what I mean....

I wonder what you think? Should I put it on another forum...Regards Ron

PS ..2 more Photos to come...I hope I am not breaking any rules here as I often have to do this to get all my photos to upload..

[murihikukid]

Patti...The tomatoes are definately getting the heat because its now quite cold in the house with the covers round my plants keeping the heat from the lights contained ...My art work is not the best ?? Took me ages to put the orange cover on the photo....Regards Ron

[MissS]

Ron, I think that you need to start a new thread in the The Workbench Forum about the heating of your freezers. My concern is that you may overheat your plants roots while the tops are not kept warm enough. I am not so sure about your cover idea. While I do know that the plants need to be 60-70 degrees for growth and production, I do not know if that is for the roots or the whole plant in general. My suspicion is that the flowers need to be at 60-70 in order for pollination to occur. Others may be more knowledgeable about this than I am. It would be good to have more opinions, I might learn something too.

Your stem on your side plant is not going to bend much more than it is. The top of the plant will just assume a vertical growth and roots will form along your (soon to be) planted stem. There is no need to encourage faster root growth. Your plant already has enough roots to survive and the rest will grow in time.

Tomatoes are not grafted for extra roots. Plants are most often grafted for disease control. People take a variety that is prone to disease and graft it onto a root stock that is disease resistant. This is great for those in warmer areas especially those that have a nematode problem in their soil. Another reason for grafting is to save space by having more than one variety growing on the same root stock.

As for your green tomatoes in the greenhouse. You can pick them all. You can allow the largest ones to ripen. You can put them in a box or on a table but only in a single layer. They will ripen overtime. The small green ones you can use for fried green tomatoes or you may pickle them. To fry tomatoes you put them in an egg mixture, bread them with bread crumbs and your choice of seasonings and then fry.

I forgot to mention yesterday that I too was very upset about Cecil's death. He sure made a worldwide impact with his passing. He was a beautiful animal with a tragic ending.

Great job on your artwork!

Do you have enough bedding to keep yourself warm or just the tomatoes?

Regards ~ Patti

[murihikukid]

"Do you have enough bedding to keep yourself warm or just the tomatoes?"

Patti..I have Marley who as time goes by is learning that snuggling up to me keeps both of us warm...
Now I have been reading articles on the effect of soil temperature on Tomato Growth but very few if any address how best for this to be done....The ceramic heat bulbs scare me as they get so hot and being inside a freezer made of a material that most probably melts is not ideal....A thermostat reading from the soil temperature to control the bulbs will be a necessity plus an appropriate enclosure that is safe from any water getting to them...unlike my small plants freezer one cannot use an electric blanket for warmth with the planter drums I plan to use...although I will search for a suitable tray that they can sit on that will collect any water seepage..
Rest assured the tops will be well looked after.......I am not that far away from the temperature required with my present system but thats air temperature so I have to buy a soil temperature probe and find out what is happening to the soil...Naturally with the increase in temperature it seems to me that watering will have to be slightly increased also...I will get it worked out and if I see anything untoward happening to my plants I will immediately contact you...

These planter drums are quite large and I am restricted to 4 a freezer (zig zagged )although I could get a small planter pot at each end ....Again I read about having large planter pots does wonders for a tomato plant ...

I have bought two soil qualities inside from the garage for my horizontal planting but as yet have not mixed it ....I am sure I need more perlite and probably pumice or what about peat moss which people seem to use.....I still have my Tui Tomato Mix and my Black Magic ...I am thinking of a mix here then mixing into my garage soil ...I am getting too many bags of seed raising soil etc lying around unused......I will bike out to Diacks Garden Centre tomorrow and see what size bags of Perlite they have and of course I want bark fines also....

Thanks for the information on how to use my green tomatoes....which leads me to my greenhouse ....In my experience there is too much risk in plastic film unless its a professionally made Tunnel house ....I thought of buying windows but quickly realised that they are all different sizes and would be a nightmare to put together.....then I successfully bid on an auction for three sliding doors ....and today I got another two again on auction reasonably cheap.....The beauty of using these is that they all are the same height and width making it easy to convert ones greenhouse from plastic to glass..I could even have rails so the sliding doors could open on really nice days...I just have to keep looking for about another ten ....I know where there are a number but at a higher price than I would normally buy for so I will just wait and see what happens in the next few months...

re Cecil...I totally agree ....New Zealand is one of the worst countries in the world for extinct animal species and how wonderful it would be if this had not happened ....and these animals could have been still seen and admired today........

Regards Ron

[murihikukid]

Patti...My tomatoes are certainly growing but I have some problems and will take some photos in the morning.... I think the leaves are now either getting too much heat or there is a lack of water ...The thermometer is 62 F hanging just above the leaves although it seems quite warm under the blankets so I would say its a water problem and because the Lisa King leaves are withering slightly I do not think its getting watered enough .... I will buy a soil temperature guage tomorrow if I can find one although I do have a meat thermometer around somewhere but cannot find it....

I am working desparately to find out a method to heat my soil ...I have gone off the ceramic heat bulbs and am trying to develop a system that plant pots can be added to or pots can be taken off....My Idea is to have a coil of tubing inside each drum ... the tube will have an inlet and outlet and water will be pumped through the tube ...The output of Drum #1 will connect to the input of drum #2 and so on depending on how many planter drums are on the "line" .....My research tells me that 75 degrees F is the recommended soil temperature for tomatoes and that in order to get this the water needs to be heated to 100 Degrees F...
There is of course a lot of aspects that still require research on ..EG what to use for tubing ..Copper could be best but its very expensive so I am trying to find out an alternative ....I have been bringing appliances home like washing machines that recycle water from the scrap merchant ...Maybe I can use parts from them to heat the water and pump it around all the drums....
In my opinion in this climate down here where I am... soil heating is critical both growing inside and outside in my greenhouse ....so any design I decide on will have to be able to service my greenhouse tomatoes ...I am sure I will come up with something?? already I am wondering about PVC tube ..I must try out some hot water in a piece and see if it conducts the heat.....With PVC maybe I could heat it and form a hooped "element" for each drum...PVC can be worked with quite easily with the right amount of heat applied by something like an electric Paint stripper... REgards Ron

[MissS]

It sounds as if you are working out your heating situation. I am sure that you are better at figuring it out than I am. I would not worry about the having extra large pots for indoor tomatoes. I would leave the drums for your greenhouse projects and use something more manageable for indoors.

Wow, you got a good deal on your glass doors. Way to go there! I hope that you find more of them soon so that you can be all glassed in for the spring.

As far as your new problem with your tomatoes, I would just water them and see if that is the issue. They will be requiring more water as they grow larger.

For your heating of the roots you could do an experiment. You could heat the roots of one freezer and just the air of another and compare your results. I would also suggest that you start a thread in the Workbench: BIY the guys will have many ideas for you to ponder.

You sure are putting a great effort into this!

Somewhere along the line you had mentioned the use of peat moss as a potting soil. Yes that would be just fine to add to your mix. Most of the potting soils sold here are peat moss based are work very well.

Regards ~ Patti

[murihikukid]

Patti...Yes glass is the way to go...RE Heating I intend to contact you privately..I have been working hard all day at the scrap metal business helping out...Of course I hope to pick up the odd item that will come in handy for my Tomato efforts...

Now to the plants .... They are certainly growing now but its the way some of the plants look ... are they tired? or maybe a lack of water....I am sure my photos attached should give you an idea....also blemish's on a Tasty Tom ..In fact I see via my photo another leaf (beside the ringed ones) with a small mark on it...I certainly hope its not a disease......

Its continued to be overcast here cold with rain showers..Not weather to be outside working in...Regards Ron...

[MissS]

Well you sure do have some nice growth going on there Ron.

The plant in your first two photos is growing beautifully and needs some pruning. The lower leaves are getting old and tired and need to be removed. Also remove anything that is touching the pot edges. I can see several new laterals or suckers starting. Pick which one if any that you intend to keep and remove all of the rest. I see that the plant already has two main stems and that just might be the way to go for this plant. I am liking its nice stocky form. The flower production on this looks very good.

I agree with you on removing the leaves that have the brown spots on them. I do notice that your foliage is starting to lighten in color from the deep almost blue to a lighter green. I would still like for you to hold off on feeding them anything for a few more days.

When was the last time that you used anything to treat fungus? If that was way back when in this thread... go ahead and spray them again. I see no disease, but let's not allow any to start with these plants.