Why is my tomato plant wilting and dying? - Page 4

Gardadore · July 20, 2016

This does seem to be a bad year for wilt, for me at least. Today I finally gave up on my Solar Flare, which was growing in a corner of a walled garden in composted straw with potting mix and other amendments. First time I have lost any plant in that spot. This one was badly wilted and quite yellow. I pulled it and I cut off the major stems and checked them. One stem near the bottom was solid and "juicy" for lack of a better term. The others looked drier and less firm. The root system is massive and looks healthy. I see no sign of anything eating the roots. I replanted it in the ground just to experiment. Don't have much hope for it but I don't give up easily!

Then there is my Amazon Chocolate, which was the first to show wilt. That has some nice tomatoes too. It is still sitting there wilted but green with the new buds wilting away as well. So clearly no more tomatoes will set. That is at the other end of the Solar Flare row. AC has wilted for me before so wonder if it is prone to it. The tomatoes are large enough to let ripen or fry up. Still waiting to see. I may start cutting off the wilted parts down to the tomatoes. The other plant in the same bale (Cherokee Lime) still seems Ok but I fear losing it eventually too. That is loaded with tomatoes.

In my other garden KBX was the first affected. That is my favorite orange so rather heartbreaking. Now the other one in the same bale next to it is wilting (Mrs. Schlaughbaugh's Famous Strawberry and new this year.) I do wonder if that bale is the culprit as it is actually more dirt from several years of decomposing and the tomato plant next to this bale last year succumbed to wilt but was the only one in the garden that did. After this summer I will replace it all with fresh bales for next year.
So they all 4 seem to have possible different reasons for wilting but it always remains a mystery to me since there is never any logic that I can find for why certain ones are affected and not others.

Fortunately I planted over 45 different varieties so can usually depend on getting something!

efisakov · July 20, 2016

I had similar experiences with exactly the same varieties. KBX, AC, and few more that always go out in July. Sometimes I would be lucky to get few ripe fruits from them, sometimes had to pick all green, and once in a blue moon nothing to pick at all.
I planted them in different locations over the years, did not help.
Trying Azoychka (again). Few years ago it was so early and tasty but was the first one to go (in raised bad). Next year it was even worst (in container). I gave up on it than. So many people raved about it, I decided to give it a chance. I am better gardener than I was few years ago, but it is loaded and sick again.

All above varieties had one of the stems getting wilted, then in couple of days or so another one.

Can the saved seeds be infected? I think they can.
I save my seeds by fermentation. Most of the times I use the seeds from original package unless I have very few remaining or want to test my own seeds.

Gardadore · July 20, 2016

Wow, efisakov, I can't believe it! I am beginning to think the seed can be infected. My Amazon Chocolate this year was from fermented - I have both saved and original. Now I will be careful not to plant the saved and see if I do better with the original. It is so depressing to lose the Amazon Chocolate again since it is a favorite and after several years of planting the KBX am amazed to have that one go on me - but you have a similar experience with it. I will put in two KBX plants next year far from each other! Azoychka has also not been a problem. But with weather conditions changing each year who knows what will be hit again. I am not planting it this year. I wonder if the wilt stays in the soil and is in the seeds. Does anyone know?

**carolyn137** · July 20, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardadore

Wow, efisakov, I can't believe it! I am beginning to think the seed can be infected. My Amazon Chocolate this year was from fermented - I have both saved and original. Now I will be careful not to plant the saved and see if I do better with the original. It is so depressing to lose the Amazon Chocolate again since it is a favorite and after several years of planting the KBX am amazed to have that one go on me - but you have a similar experience with it. I will put in two KBX plants next year far from each other! Azoychka has also not been a problem. But with weather conditions changing each year who knows what will be hit again. I am not planting it this year. I wonder if the wilt stays in the soil and is in the seeds. Does anyone know?

Yes, seeds can be infected, but where,on the outer seed coat or internally is to me the most important question.

Fungal pathogens such as Fusarium,for example,can be on the seed coat and fermentation helps,but does NOT eliminate all of them and data is available,or was,to indicate that even if not all are eliminated it can help,since a certain # of pathogens are needed to initiate infection.

So far,all bacterial and viral and viroid ones looked at have been found internally in the seed,and fermentation won't touch them.What they need is hot water treatment,which is complicated and there are many many threads here at Tville about how that's done.

Perhaps in the larger seed catalogs that commercial folks are given the option of hot water treated seeds,for a bit more money.

I guess the saying is,don't try this at home,let the pros do it, b/c there can be significant loss of seed viability if not done right.

Carolyn

efisakov · July 20, 2016

Carolyn, thank you for clarifying that for us.
btw I got new seeds from TV member for Amazon Chocolate last year. Planted two of them in different location than before. One got seek right after I picked first tomato, second took longer. I may have something here that AC does not like.

b54red · July 20, 2016

After fermenting seed and cleaning them I do put my seed in a bleach water mix for a minute or so before rinsing them and drying them. I don't know if this is why I haven't had any seed caused fusarium on my grafted plants. I just assumed that if the scion had fusarium it would still exist on the grafted plant with the resistant rootstock. I assumed the rootstock only protected the grafted plant from the introduction of fusarium through the roots. I did get a few cases of fusarium late in the season on a couple where roots developed on the stem above the graft and went down into the soil. That only occurred where the mulch was thin or nonexistent under the stem lying on the ground. This is one of the reasons besides keeping the fruit from touching the soil that I put down a heavy layer of cypress mulch in my tomato beds. I sometimes have stems lying on the ground from late May through November because of the way I lower my plants as they grow.

I never save seed from plants infected with TSWV because I know how deadly that stuff is and that it is viral. What other infections can be transmitted inside the seed Carolyn?

Bill

Gardadore · July 21, 2016

Interesting clarification on seeds carrying disease. So next year it will be only new seeds for Amazon Chocolate. My KBX was from a commercial vendor and I never had problems before which is why I suspect the dirt in the bale. Can it winter over if a plant next to it died of wilt last year? Since this also spread to the plant next to it this year, I think the soil in the bales must also be carrying it.

**carolyn137** · July 21, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by b54red

After fermenting seed and cleaning them I do put my seed in a bleach water mix for a minute or so before rinsing them and drying them. I don't know if this is why I haven't had any seed caused fusarium on my grafted plants. I just assumed that if the scion had fusarium it would still exist on the grafted plant with the resistant rootstock. I assumed the rootstock only protected the grafted plant from the introduction of fusarium through the roots. I did get a few cases of fusarium late in the season on a couple where roots developed on the stem above the graft and went down into the soil. That only occurred where the mulch was thin or nonexistent under the stem lying on the ground. This is one of the reasons besides keeping the fruit from touching the soil that I put down a heavy layer of cypress mulch in my tomato beds. I sometimes have stems lying on the ground from late May through November because of the way I lower my plants as they grow.

I never save seed from plants infected with TSWV because I know how deadly that stuff is and that it is viral. What other infections can be transmitted inside the seed Carolyn?

Bill

http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...Treatment.html

Bill, scroll down to table 2 to see the list of diseases that can be seed borne.

What it doesn't show there is which ones are on the seed coat and which ones are internal but my comments above referred to that question.

With Fusarium it also depends on which of the three serotypes of Fusarium are on the rootstock since there's no cross protection with those 3 serotypes.

Carolyn

b54red · July 21, 2016

Thanks Carolyn.

All the rootstock that I use now are resistant to all three races of fusarium since I seem to be afflicted rather badly with them all. Up until 7 or 8 years ago any hybrid plant with resistance to two types of fusarium had no problems but then things changed. When I started grafting I tried rootstock that were resistant to all three and some that were only resistant to two races of fusarium. Almost all of the grafts on rootstock resistant to two races of fusarium got fusarium before the end of the season but most got sick before they produced much fruit and then things went downhill from there. I might have had one or two cases of mild fusarium with the varieties resistant to three types of fusarium over the past few years but not enough to wilt or kill the plants. My production since using grafting has been through the roof compared to non grafted plants but I still have to deal with the foliage diseases, pests and TSWV every year.

I have noticed that overall my problems with foliage diseases has decreased since I started grafting all my plants and most of my seeds are saved from my own plants. I think this is due more to healthier plants not infected with fusarium, my support system and pruning plants in a way that spraying coverage is much better than to any resistance brought about by the rootstock. Of course I could be wrong about that but my pest problems have not slacked off in the least other than it is easier to spray the plants when the pests get too bad.

Bill

July 20, 2016	#47
efisakov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NJ, zone 7 Posts: 3,162	I had similar experiences with exactly the same varieties. KBX, AC, and few more that always go out in July. Sometimes I would be lucky to get few ripe fruits from them, sometimes had to pick all green, and once in a blue moon nothing to pick at all. I planted them in different locations over the years, did not help. Trying Azoychka (again). Few years ago it was so early and tasty but was the first one to go (in raised bad). Next year it was even worst (in container). I gave up on it than. So many people raved about it, I decided to give it a chance. I am better gardener than I was few years ago, but it is loaded and sick again. All above varieties had one of the stems getting wilted, then in couple of days or so another one. Can the saved seeds be infected? I think they can. I save my seeds by fermentation. Most of the times I use the seeds from original package unless I have very few remaining or want to test my own seeds. __________________ Ella God comes along and says, "I think I'm going to create THE tomato!”

July 20, 2016	#50
efisakov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NJ, zone 7 Posts: 3,162	Carolyn, thank you for clarifying that for us. btw I got new seeds from TV member for Amazon Chocolate last year. Planted two of them in different location than before. One got seek right after I picked first tomato, second took longer. I may have something here that AC does not like. __________________ Ella God comes along and says, "I think I'm going to create THE tomato!”

July 20, 2016	#46
Gardadore Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Saylorsburg, PA Posts: 261	This does seem to be a bad year for wilt, for me at least. Today I finally gave up on my Solar Flare, which was growing in a corner of a walled garden in composted straw with potting mix and other amendments. First time I have lost any plant in that spot. This one was badly wilted and quite yellow. I pulled it and I cut off the major stems and checked them. One stem near the bottom was solid and "juicy" for lack of a better term. The others looked drier and less firm. The root system is massive and looks healthy. I see no sign of anything eating the roots. I replanted it in the ground just to experiment. Don't have much hope for it but I don't give up easily! Then there is my Amazon Chocolate, which was the first to show wilt. That has some nice tomatoes too. It is still sitting there wilted but green with the new buds wilting away as well. So clearly no more tomatoes will set. That is at the other end of the Solar Flare row. AC has wilted for me before so wonder if it is prone to it. The tomatoes are large enough to let ripen or fry up. Still waiting to see. I may start cutting off the wilted parts down to the tomatoes. The other plant in the same bale (Cherokee Lime) still seems Ok but I fear losing it eventually too. That is loaded with tomatoes. In my other garden KBX was the first affected. That is my favorite orange so rather heartbreaking. Now the other one in the same bale next to it is wilting (Mrs. Schlaughbaugh's Famous Strawberry and new this year.) I do wonder if that bale is the culprit as it is actually more dirt from several years of decomposing and the tomato plant next to this bale last year succumbed to wilt but was the only one in the garden that did. After this summer I will replace it all with fresh bales for next year. So they all 4 seem to have possible different reasons for wilting but it always remains a mystery to me since there is never any logic that I can find for why certain ones are affected and not others. Fortunately I planted over 45 different varieties so can usually depend on getting something!

July 20, 2016	#51
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	After fermenting seed and cleaning them I do put my seed in a bleach water mix for a minute or so before rinsing them and drying them. I don't know if this is why I haven't had any seed caused fusarium on my grafted plants. I just assumed that if the scion had fusarium it would still exist on the grafted plant with the resistant rootstock. I assumed the rootstock only protected the grafted plant from the introduction of fusarium through the roots. I did get a few cases of fusarium late in the season on a couple where roots developed on the stem above the graft and went down into the soil. That only occurred where the mulch was thin or nonexistent under the stem lying on the ground. This is one of the reasons besides keeping the fruit from touching the soil that I put down a heavy layer of cypress mulch in my tomato beds. I sometimes have stems lying on the ground from late May through November because of the way I lower my plants as they grow. I never save seed from plants infected with TSWV because I know how deadly that stuff is and that it is viral. What other infections can be transmitted inside the seed Carolyn? Bill

July 21, 2016	#52
Gardadore Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Saylorsburg, PA Posts: 261	Interesting clarification on seeds carrying disease. So next year it will be only new seeds for Amazon Chocolate. My KBX was from a commercial vendor and I never had problems before which is why I suspect the dirt in the bale. Can it winter over if a plant next to it died of wilt last year? Since this also spread to the plant next to it this year, I think the soil in the bales must also be carrying it.