Root development along buried stem?

neoguy · May 14, 2009

My question is how long does it take for roots to form along buried stems? Many of my transplants needed much more soil-less mix to fill in to the top of the cups, as much as 50% fill. I filled in with Pro-Mix with a 1 day old alfalfa tea (mixed 1/4 cup alfalfa meal to 1 gallon water).

**carolyn137** · May 14, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoguy

My question is how long does it take for roots to form along buried stems? Many of my transplants needed much more soil-less mix to fill in to the top of the cups, as much as 50% fill. I filled in with Pro-Mix with a 1 day old alfalfa tea (mixed 1/4 cup alfalfa meal to 1 gallon water).

Root primodia don't form on the stems of young seedlings, only initially on the main stem of a more mature plant already inground and any of the larger stems of a plant when the branch makes contact with the soil.

So I wouldn't expect to see root primordia on initial transplants and young seedlings.

habitat_gardener · May 15, 2009

Carolyn, what do you mean by "young" seedlings?

When I was potting up my 5 or 6 week old Purple Russian seedlings (already wispy and lanky), one stem broke. Instead of composting it, I potted it up, thinking the stem would either heal under the soil or grow new roots. I haven't uprooted it to find out what happened, but at 8 weeks (and still not planted out -- it's an extra I need to give away), it's still healthy and growing.

Also, I got a pitiful Depp's Pink Firefly seedling at a plant exchange. It was only 2-3 inches, falling out of its container of bone-dry soil, with a tuft of roots at the bottom of the seedling. I brought it home and potted it up 2 weeks ago, and it has survived and is growing a little.

I've noticed something's been eating part of the stems of some of my seedlings in the cold frame. I noticed one of them was almost girdled, though the top growth still looked good, so I potted it deeper. Should I expect it to survive?

**carolyn137** · May 15, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

Carolyn, what do you mean by "young" seedlings?

When I was potting up my 5 or 6 week old Purple Russian seedlings (already wispy and lanky), one stem broke. Instead of composting it, I potted it up, thinking the stem would either heal under the soil or grow new roots. I haven't uprooted it to find out what happened, but at 8 weeks (and still not planted out -- it's an extra I need to give away), it's still healthy and growing.

Also, I got a pitiful Depp's Pink Firefly seedling at a plant exchange. It was only 2-3 inches, falling out of its container of bone-dry soil, with a tuft of roots at the bottom of the seedling. I brought it home and potted it up 2 weeks ago, and it has survived and is growing a little.

I've noticed something's been eating part of the stems of some of my seedlings in the cold frame. I noticed one of them was almost girdled, though the top growth still looked good, so I potted it deeper. Should I expect it to survive?

I took your question to mean that mature stems that were buried from a mature plant would develop root primorida that would then form additional roots.

But from what you just posted that's not what you meant at all.

Essentially you were asking about cuttings, or broken stems and yes, when repotted they usually do form new roots, but it's not the same as a more mature plant forming root primorida initially along the lower part of the main stem.

As to the one that you repotted from the cold frame, if the damage was critters and not post emergent damping off, then it should make new roots and be OK.

neoguy · May 15, 2009

As always, thanks!

seeker · November 29, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Root primodia don't form on the stems of young seedlings, only initially on the main stem of a more mature plant already inground and any of the larger stems of a plant when the branch makes contact with the soil.

So I wouldn't expect to see root primordia on initial transplants and young seedlings.

Carolyn,
I guess I'm being thick-headed, but I'm confused by this thread. I thought that if one transplanted a young seedling and buried it deeper, that it would form new roots along the buried stem. Is this incorrect? Or have I misunderstood what you said here?
Paula (hoping you're still reading this thread)

**carolyn137** · November 29, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker

Carolyn,
I guess I'm being thick-headed, but I'm confused by this thread. I thought that if one transplanted a young seedling and buried it deeper, that it would form new roots along the buried stem. Is this incorrect? Or have I misunderstood what you said here?
Paula (hoping you're still reading this thread)

Paula, next time you transplant young seedlings, maybe 1-2 inches, take a look and convince yourself that there are no primordia along the stems. Then look at the same transplanted seedlings when ready to set outside and you'll still see no primordia along the stem.

The purpose of the initial transplant of young seedlings is to form a terminal fibrous root system rather than a tap root system which occurs after direct seeding and no transplantation.

seeker · November 29, 2009

Carolyn,
Thanks so much for straightening that out. I will indeed check it out next spring. I'm so glad I read this thread, and so glad you answered. I had planned on trying a new (to me) method of starting seeds next spring that I read about on one of the forums. The idea was to start the seed in a 3" or 4" pot, filled about halfway with potting mix. Then, as the plant grew, keep adding mix so roots would develop along the main stem. Maybe I misunderstood what the poster was saying, 'cause that sure doesn't sound as good as it once did to me. And, since I grow everything in containers, I'd guess I really don't want to grow a tap root system either.
Thanks again,
Paula

huntsman · November 30, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

The purpose of the initial transplant of young seedlings is to form a terminal fibrous root system rather than a tap root system which occurs after direct seeding and no transplantation.

This is serendipitous in the extreme...

So it is really important to pot up quite soon after the seedlings sprout? How soon and how deep, Carolyn? (Forgive the interjection please, OP)

I see you mention direct seeding: Does this tap root not occur when you are germinating from seed trays? I'm guessing it does...

**carolyn137** · November 30, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by huntsman

This is serendipitous in the extreme...

So it is really important to pot up quite soon after the seedlings sprout? How soon and how deep, Carolyn? (Forgive the interjection please, OP)

I see you mention direct seeding: Does this tap root not occur when you are germinating from seed trays? I'm guessing it does...

http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...010137toc.html

I think it's best to transplant at the 1-2 inch height from the seedling pan to cells or whatever is deep enough to accmodate the whole plant with out bending the wee roots, that is, transplant so only the top few leaves are showing. The shock to the root system in doing that is what allows for a fibrous root system to develop which is advantagous in terms a greater root mass and uptake of water and nutrients than would be a tap root structure.

By direct seeding I mean direct seeding outside where the plants are left to grow in place and never transplanted, which is what some commercial folks in CA and other warm places do routinely.

The link above is a good one although it dates to quite a while ago. Before the molecular era the major work with tomatoes was with growth and basic pollination, etc.

Scroll down in the above link to the section on tomatoes.

goodwin · November 30, 2009

Interesting - and this would explain why 'volunteers' in the garden, while they are often healthy and productive, don't grow as large as transplants of the same variety.

huntsman · December 1, 2009

Thank you very much, Carolyn!

Later...

Superb resource you sent me to... thanks once again!

(Good point, goodwin. Things are starting to make sense...!)

huxter09 · December 2, 2009

Fabulous link --I've spent quite a while reading the science of root development --fascinating stuff --we never stop learning ,do we !

geeboss · December 2, 2009

This is the root development I'm shooting for

huntsman · December 4, 2009

I transplanted 50 or 60 toms over the past two days, and I was wondering if I should perhaps have loosened the root ball as I went...?

Great target, geebos!

May 14, 2009	#1
neoguy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 610	Root development along buried stem? My question is how long does it take for roots to form along buried stems? Many of my transplants needed much more soil-less mix to fill in to the top of the cups, as much as 50% fill. I filled in with Pro-Mix with a 1 day old alfalfa tea (mixed 1/4 cup alfalfa meal to 1 gallon water).

December 1, 2009	#12
huntsman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa - GrowZone 9 Posts: 595	Thank you very much, Carolyn! Later... Superb resource you sent me to... thanks once again! (Good point, goodwin. Things are starting to make sense...!) Last edited by huntsman; December 1, 2009 at 08:01 AM.

December 2, 2009	#13
huxter09 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 53	Fabulous link --I've spent quite a while reading the science of root development --fascinating stuff --we never stop learning ,do we ! __________________ The world needs you to grow your own food !

May 15, 2009	#3
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,541	Carolyn, what do you mean by "young" seedlings? When I was potting up my 5 or 6 week old Purple Russian seedlings (already wispy and lanky), one stem broke. Instead of composting it, I potted it up, thinking the stem would either heal under the soil or grow new roots. I haven't uprooted it to find out what happened, but at 8 weeks (and still not planted out -- it's an extra I need to give away), it's still healthy and growing. Also, I got a pitiful Depp's Pink Firefly seedling at a plant exchange. It was only 2-3 inches, falling out of its container of bone-dry soil, with a tuft of roots at the bottom of the seedling. I brought it home and potted it up 2 weeks ago, and it has survived and is growing a little. I've noticed something's been eating part of the stems of some of my seedlings in the cold frame. I noticed one of them was almost girdled, though the top growth still looked good, so I potted it deeper. Should I expect it to survive?

November 29, 2009	#8
seeker Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Harrisburg PA Posts: 95	Carolyn, Thanks so much for straightening that out. I will indeed check it out next spring. I'm so glad I read this thread, and so glad you answered. I had planned on trying a new (to me) method of starting seeds next spring that I read about on one of the forums. The idea was to start the seed in a 3" or 4" pot, filled about halfway with potting mix. Then, as the plant grew, keep adding mix so roots would develop along the main stem. Maybe I misunderstood what the poster was saying, 'cause that sure doesn't sound as good as it once did to me. And, since I grow everything in containers, I'd guess I really don't want to grow a tap root system either. Thanks again, Paula

November 30, 2009	#11
goodwin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Espanola, New Mexico Posts: 606	Interesting - and this would explain why 'volunteers' in the garden, while they are often healthy and productive, don't grow as large as transplants of the same variety.

December 4, 2009	#15
huntsman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa - GrowZone 9 Posts: 595	I transplanted 50 or 60 toms over the past two days, and I was wondering if I should perhaps have loosened the root ball as I went...? Great target, geebos!