Grub's Mystery Green

[Grub]

Hi,
I have seven Grub's Mystery Green growing. All are PL but for one RL. One of the PLs in a pot — would you believe the plant I bagged in its entirety — has thrown out these small red fruits.



All the seeds that I am sending Up Over in my seed offer come from green fruits. I'm not sure what generation we're up to but I'm quietly confident you will all get PL plants with green fruit from my seeds distribution.

Craig,
As you're growing the same generation as I have just done you might get this red. It looks a lot like Kimberly!

Cheers, Grub :wink:

[PNW_D]

Greetings Grub,

Well that makes two reds - right? I suppose the good thing about getting some off colours is that (at least in my mind) confirms the seed that came from the Paul Robeson package is indeed crossed rather than a mix-up of a known variety.

But, once again, the question - how do the reds taste? And, was there a reason you bagged this particular plant - earlier, more prolific, etc.

Keep the reports coming, really enjoyed your last posted pics - fabulous garden you have.

Thought we were already into our spring here, but the last few -4 C nights has changed my mind somewhat

[Grub]

Hi D,
Your are dead right. Another compatriot got a small red but then also large greens on his RL version. I bagged this plant for some reason, maybe because it has so many flowers, and now there are many many clusters of small reds.

I haven't picked one of these reds to taste it yet, but I surely will and will report back on that aspect of this interesting exercise. Meantime, I'll just keep saving fruit from as many large PL greens as I can. Sure looking like an original cross

BTW: Looking forward to trying some Perseys tonight

[popepaul]

Hi Grub,

Just wanted to give you an update on the Grub's Mystery Green seeds you sent me. I planted four seeds and had 100% germination. Three were Potato Leaf and one was a Regular Leaf. I am assuming that the seeds you sent out in February are the same generation that you are getting the red ones from.

Here are the photos, Day 25 after planting the seeds. I just transplanted them to Styrofoam cups.


Thanks again for the seeds. I cannot wait to slice that first one.

Regards,
Paul

[Grub]

Wow. Thanks Paul. That's interesting. Yes, same generation seeds I think. It goes something like this...

I grew the first GMG (RL). Saved seeds (Lot 1) and sent them to Denise in Canada. She planted them and got a PL Green. She sent me those (Lot 2) seeds and I sowed them and got one red out of the six PLs. I saved the seeds from all of them (Lot 3).

It would have been too late to get my (Lot 3) seeds to you for your season. Meantime, I had two of my own GMG plants growing from Lot 1 seeds. One was RL and one was PL. The PL plant (Lot 2 or 2b if you like), is where your seeds came from.

So I've got a few sources to ensure it keeps going. But you will see a green there for sure. PL or RL or both, which I'm betting. The RL's a nice plant too.

As mentioned, I now have seeds saved from the new ones (Lot 3). Your save will be Lot 3b. I'll be checking this thread from time to time for any more anomolies.

Meantime, I better go take an aspirin. Genetics is my weakness.

Thanks, Grub :wink:

[Mantis]

Grub sent me some of Denises seeds and I got only one to survive as they went in late here in the heat of summer. The one survivor is a PL with green fruit. All the non survivors were also PL. I have saved heaps of seeds and will send some onto Grub this weekend to add to his stock.

[robbins]

Hey Grub,
I planted 5 of the PL GMG - got 4 PL's and one RL. Planted 5 RL and got 5 RL's. 100% germ. Have transplanted up to 4" pots - now just awaiting planting out and fruit! Kept the one RL-PL - will plant with the RL's.
Thanks for letting me try them -
Robbins

[carolyn137]

Grub,

And now I think you see the results of not dehybridizing what you had by yourself before sending out seed to others.

It took me five years to get a stable OTV Brandywine selecting each year, ignoring other plants that didn't match what was seen in the hybrid.

The key is having enough room to grow lots of plants in the F2, F3, etc., so that you have a better idea of what is segregating out.

So now each person is going to have their own line of GMG going and saved seed from a green when ripe may well give off some red fruited plants, and PL and RL will continue to appear.

Black Brandywine was released before it was stable and some folks get RL and PL plants and each one has diiferent fruits.

Copia was released before it was stable and you've seen some of the pictures showing huge variability.

Big Zebra seems to have much of the same problem.

One person listed his crossed seed in the SSE Yearbook and invited others to stabilize it. Somehow I don't like to see that either, b'c then you've got different folks all over the place getting who knows what, not stabilizing anything, and some seeds that give rise to different plants and fruit going out under the same name.

Ah well, it is fun, isn't it, except when it's YOU and you think you have something genetically stable, which clearly you don't yet. :wink:

But someone somewhere will get it stabilized to a PL green when ripe and then you can throw a party for us, perhaps on your boat? Better still in your backyard b'c I'm sure your boat wouldn't hold all the folks who would want to take out loans to pay for the plane trip to and from your place to meet you in person, me included if i could.

And then you could distribute those stable seeds to all interested parties everywhere.

So don't worry so much about this since you've been up front with everyone about sharing what's happening , and for heaven's sake it is a nice genetic trip, isn't it.

[Tomstrees]

Understood Carolyn ~

I was under the impression
that everyone that requested the GMG
were all part of the stabilization part
of this "new?" variety ~
Keeping only the desired traits Mr. Grub
is working for >

~ Tom

[carolyn137]

I was under the impression
that everyone that requested the GMG
were all part of the stabilization part
of this "new?" variety ~
Keeping only the desired traits Mr. Grub
is working for >

Tom,

I do think that when Grub started distributing seeds that he thought it was stable, and thus was surprised to find plants with red fruits, as well as some plants being PL and some RL.

We'd talked about his GMG coming from Paul Robeson before, over at GW, and I know I had pointed out the comparison with Cherokee Chocolate giving rise to Cherokee Green in one single spontatnous mutation, and since Paul Robeson is a black as is Cherokee Chocolate, I think the hope/understanding/whatever, was that the GMG might follow that same path, although the possibility that it might be a cross was never dismissed.

So while yes, folks are going to have to make selections and purify out the PL green when ripe for themselves, just as I'm sure Grub will be doing with his own stock, I don't think that was expected in the beginning.

If it had been, I don't think Grub would be posting about his disappointment about finding red fruits and RL's when he bagged whole plants.

As I said above and will repeat, genetics can be fun.

[Tania]

Ok, here are my results (and now I wish I started more seeds! )

Planted 2 seeds of GMG PL, got 2 PL seedlings
Planted 2 seeds of GMG RL, and also got 2 PL seedlings. Weird.

Excellent germination, all popped up on 4-5th day.

I'll grow all 4 and see what I'll get. 8)

[Grub]

I couldn't hope for a better spokesperson than Carolyn. She has explained the scenario perfectly.

I just wanted to share the tasty new Green PL with everyone. And I was shocked to get a red one from a PL. Interestingly, that red fruit was very good tasting and, when I closed my eyes, I could identify some of the flavour nuances in the green fruit. But why anyone would want a mid-late season Kimberly-sized red is beyond me. Still I saved seeds.

But I will say that the PL Green is by far the most common result. I'm guessing 85 per cent strike rate. But as Carolyn said so eloquently just grow whatever you feel like growing and hopefully you get the Green PL to try. And save seeds or not. It’s up to you. And it could be fun.

Thanks Mantis for your help. I'm not sure what you thought of the taste but the seeds will be welcome.

Thanks for the report, Robins. And Tania I do know the PL and RL seeds were saved and packaged separately. So that is really cool getting the PLs from RLs. Now, be green.

Hopefully Craig will stabilise it for us all, as I continue to experiment with different varieties including GMG PL in my modest backyard. And when he does stabilise then we can celebrate some more A harbour cruise. Oh, yeh. 8)

[Mantis]

I was under the impression and I think rightly that we were all trying for PL Green when ripes and disregarding anything else. Thus fast tracking the stabilisation of GMG PL.
From what I have read so far, the majority of plants from PL Greens have gived just that, with a few RL greens and a couple of small red things. Not bad so far me thinks.
Grub, I thought the taste was up there with the best. Somewhat sweeter and less citrus tang than Cherokee Green (the only other green when ripe I have tried), but with its own flavours and no lower on the taste scale than CG. It was grown at a completely different time of year than CG so a side by side comparison next season will be fun.
Cheers Mantis

[Sorellina]

Ciao Grub,

Just wanted to give you a quick update from frosty Toronto. I sowed 3 of the PL seeds you sent me on 23 March and 1 finally poked its head out of the peat pellet this morning, so YAY! I'm hoping the other 2 aren't far behind. Thanks again for sharing your seeds with me.

Cheers,
Julianna

[Lee]

And don't forget, Carolyn, the Cherokee Green fiasco of last season when some were throwing out similarly sized red fruits from the same seed lot as normal green when ripe fruits.
Could be a similar genetic thingy going on with the Grubster's tomato.

Lee