growing seeds under grow lights

[jardinlady]

Hello I am a fairly new gardener so this question might sound silly to some of you.

I have been trying so grow veggies from seed for about a month now and I do have a small set up of grow lights that are set up in my bedroom.

I have tried to grow lettuce from seed but even though they were under grow lights the stems were too long and spindly, therefore the plant always wanted to bend.

I've read in other forums throought the internet that I am supposed to place the lights very close to my new seedlings expecially lettuce so they don't become spindly and long.

My question is, I always place my seeds on top of the frindge until they start poking out and then place them on the grow lights but different seeds and vegetables or herbs come out at different rates so how can I adjust my lights accordingly if some of my seedlings came out before some others and therefore have had time to grow.

Example is parsley or cilantro, according to the package it takes a good 2-3 weeks for the seedlings to emerge or even pepper takes a little longer than say tomatoes or cucumbers or basil which for me took just 48 hours to emerge.

Will investing in a heat mat solve this problem or is there any other way to do this?

[Blueaussi]

Investing in a seed mat would help. Or you could segregate your seeds in separate containers so that each can be moved when sprouted.

You don't describe your grow light set up, but you could also enclose it in something like aluminum foil that isn't flammable. That would hold the heat the lights put out, keeping the seeds and seedlings warmer, plus aluminum foil or mylar or some other reflective material will increase the light intensity by reflecting it. (Most light wonks sneer at aluminum foil, but I use it, and it works fine)

One thing to consider is that not all seeds germinate at the same temperatures. Lettuce likes it cooler than tomatoes, basil, or peppers.

[jardinlady]

This is the grow lights that I have right now. You did give me an idea with the foil paper.

Maybe I can place some foil paper where the grow lights are and see if this will solve the problem.

I've also heard people using electric blankets to sprout their seeds instead of the seed mats. Will the blanket work as well. The seed mats are kind of pricy and I am always looking for cheaper ways to do things.

[amideutch]

jardinlady, your going to need more light than that one or two tube setup puts out. As mentioned earlier you need to separate your seedlings by germination rates and whether they are warm or cold weather crops. Am I to assume that you won't be growing tomatoes or peppers as a fall crop? Here are three links that show my grow light setups. First is my five 40 watt fluorescent tube fixture and notice I use Styrofoam insulation slabs to adjust my seedling height and to keep them from getting cold feet. No reason why you could'nt cut the slabs into thirds and then you would be able to adjust the height of your seedlings in three sections independent of each other under the lights without having to adjust the height of the light fixture. Plus the styrofoam insulates the seedlings from the surface they are setting on. The second link is my newly modified fixture I used this year with 6 Compact Fluorescents (CFL's) and 3 Powertwist Fluorescents. As you can see I do only tomatoes. 3rd link is the new fixture with seedlings. Ami

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=8186

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10253

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=10738

[tjg911]

what you need is something to allow you to raise plants. for example, when i have plants of different sizes i use pieces of wood as spacers. i set my lights to be 1" above the tallest plant or plants. i then use the spacers to bring the shorter plants up to the 1" level. you can find scrap wood at a site where a house is being built, just ask they'll usually give you all you want from a pile of scrap. trim wood is great as it is thin, take a 3 or 4' piece and cut it into short pieces, thin pieces are much more useful than thick! if you can't find a construction site, you can buy wood but get thin wood say 1/4" or 1/2" thick and nor more than a couple of inches wide. then cut pieces 2 or 3" long, now you have spacers. i stack many spacers together to get my plants at the 1" level, a good selection of different thicknesses allows you to adjust the spacer to the exact height you need.. i have maybe 70 or 80 pieces of wood from 1/4" thick to 3" thick. mix and match to get your plants under the lights so they are not leggy.

you also can hang one end of the lights lower than the other but you'll still need some type of spacing method to get the plants at the correct height.

paperback books might work, newspapers, what ever, i find wood to be the easiest.

tom

[jardinlady]

Thank you so much!

Amideutch, I reaaly love your set up! My DH and I are in the process of building a shed, a big one, Once it is done I might ask him, to build me a different light set up, maybe even a 4 shelf one, and place it in the shed with a timer so lights come on and off automatically.

As far as right now this is the only set up I have so Tom your idea of rasing the plants with wood or books might work better for the meantime.

I also just lined the bottoom of where the bulbs are with foil paper as suggested by Blueaussi, to get more light spectrum.

Amideutch as far as growing tomatoes and peppers for fall gardening, I have to say that I tried, I planted about 10 varieties to grow, but unfortunatelly my little girl got a hold of my seedlings and about almost all of them were gone, then the survivars where just too tiny and spindly to put out, they were taking forever to grow!

Some people mentioned that it was the lack of fertilizers others that the seeds that I used were too old, they were from 2004.

Right now I am working on trying to amend the soil I have by planting a cover crop and also digging lots of alfalfa hay, hopefully by the time this is all done I can start planting tomatoes again, and I will have better results.

August and September has been rough on us though and we've been getting lots of rains everyday so I've heard from other members that live close to my area that the tomato crop did not do well and many tomatoes rotted because of all the rain we've been getting.

Thank you so much for all your help.

[habitat_gardener]

Regarding old seeds and spindly seedlings...

The age of seeds should not make a difference once they have sprouted. Sometimes older seeds are harder to sprout or will take longer, but once they've sprouted, they can grow just as well as more recent seeds.

You can "rescue" spindly seedlings by repotting them up to the lowest leaf (if there's only one set of true leaves) or even deeper, if there are more leaves. I even repotted a seedling that broke, and it either repaired itself underground or grew new roots.

[jardinlady]

Thank you so much for this tip.

I don't have a huge garden but would like to grow different veggies.

Everytime I go to stores such as HomeDepot and Lowes and see their seedlings, I am always asking myself how come they get strong looking seedlings, not long and spindly like mine.

I tried to grow some maters this last july the seed was from 2004 and I had good germination but the seeds took forever to grow and they just did not want to grow, also they were spindly and long. Somebody mentioned maybe I was not providing enough liquid fertilizer so I just purchased some Alaska Fish emultion to feed my seedlings with, hopefully this will help.

[Marko]

If the seedlings are spindly and long the only reason is lack of sunlight. Any fertilizer will make situation just worse.

[jardinlady]

Well mine are under grow lights most of the morning, I just turn off the grow lights off when I am off to bed since my grow light system is in my room.

I even went as far as purchasing the bulbs that are intended for growing plants.

I really think they are getting plenty of light. I am trying to see if by raising the plants closer to the lights will help the situation, I've also heard of placing a small fan so they get some wind might make their stems not be so flimsy.

I guess I could place my herbs outside once they sprout to get sunlight and just bring them inside when the weather is not that good but seedlings such as tomatoes and peppers for what I hear you have to let them grow and get to a certain size before you can bring them out.

[Blueaussi]

Intensity of light is as important as number of hours. Marko is correct when he says spindly plants are caused by not enough light.

A lot of people use a fan, but you can also shake your seedlings to get them to thicken up some. Gently shake the plant or the whole tray for about 30 seconds a day.

Nothing works as well as bright light, though.

[tjg911]

you need to give the plants 16 hours of light and 8 hours of dark, not 12/12 or 24/0. i do not use a fan but you certainly can. when i harden off the plants they get the same effect from being outside in the air moving (not strong winds of 20 mph!). as for bulbs use the least expensive tubes, the expensive grow light tubes are a waste of money imo. if you doubt that you should see my plants and those of others that use the cheap tubes!

[jardinlady]

OK, I do see one problem which is I do not let my seedling have enough light, the most they get is probably 13 to 14 hours, so in this case I probably have to find another place to keep my seeds, maybe in the laundry are or so.

As far as intensity of light the I have two long fluorencent bulbs that are supposed to be made for growing plants. I wish I knew about just using regular cold fuorencent lights before I had purchased this ones.

I did place the lights closer to the seedlings as I think that might have been another problem.

If this does not solve the problem, and I still get long and spindly seeds, I might think of building myself another system, maybe even one with 4 fluorencent lights attached to each other and a timer.

Oh, and another thing to learn I guess is don't buy the systems that I bought from Park's, is definetely not worth the money, if I knew better back when I purchased mine, I would just gotten and build me something for 1/3 of the price.

[dice]

Getting them closer will help a lot. Usually you want the tops
of tomato seedlings within one inch of 40W flourescent light
bulbs.

Since they end up at all different heights after a few weeks,
something to prop them up is usually needed. I use blocks of
wood or "table leg adjuster" paperback books to elevate a
seedling tray with the shorter plants in it, and I move the
shortest ones toward the ends of the trays in the middle,
where they will get the most light (be sure to keep track of
which seedling is what variety when moving them around to
get better light; I only do this after I have potted them up from
seed starting cells into 4" pots or newspaper pots, and I have
a marker in each pot telling what variety it is).

I have trays on a shelf beside a window, with lights overhead,
and I hang something reflective (like foil, although not exactly
that), on the inside side of the lights, so that they get sunlight
from the window and flourescent light from the overhead lights,
plus whatever is reflected back on them from the reflective
surface on one side.

Even with that, they can still get a little spindly over several
weeks, so brushing them daily with your fingertips or putting
a fan on them for an hour or two a day still helps grow more
sturdy seedlings.

If, after everything, you still have tall, spindly seedlings when
it comes time to plant them in containers or in a garden, you
can just snip off all leaves except the top set or two and
plant them deep, so that only the leaves at the top and
growing tip are exposed to the light. The plant will eventually
grow more roots from the buried part of the stem.

[rxkeith]

one other issue you should look at is the temperature of the room the plants are growing in. warm temps promote faster growth. the best results i have had starting from seed whether it be tomatoes, lettuce, brassicas, was to grow them in a cool environment such as a basement or a bedroom with the heat turned down. temp. range was in the low to upper 60s. my plants grew slow, but steady.
another key thing i learned was not to over water. be stingy. just enough water to keep them alive and growing, thats it.
adequate lighting
cool temps
adequate water
very little or no fertilizer

if you can get those 4 things right, and keep the youngster from pulling up the plants, you should have good results.


keith