Thicker Stalks, Deeper Greens

[TigersAU777]

I am new to the tomato game and am growing 8 early girls, 2 better boys, 1 park's whopper, and 1 red beefsteak tomato plant. My plan is a 3 stage fertilization, with the first stage being high in nitrogen to stimulate growth, the second high in phosphorous to encourage vigorous blooming, and the third stage high potassium to promote better fruits. Through reading I am developing some mixed thoughts about my 1st stage as many things lead me to believe that high nitrogen is not a good idea. I would like to promote growth as much as I can before fruiting though, so how can I go about this? About half of my early girls have very spindly stalks, and are a much lighter green. I am looking for a way to thicken them up and deepen the color so they are not a light green. Any input is appreciated...Thanks!!

[TigersAU777]

Bump. Can Anyone Help?

[Gobig_or_Gohome_toms]

If they are spindly make sure they are getting enough light and second make sure they are not getting too much water. Typically the first application of frets I use on seedlings is 25 to 50 percent strength of miricle grow for tomatoes once the second set of true leaves appear and then at plant out I use 50 to 75 percent miracle grow for tomatoes. Then at blooming stage I have used miracle bloom booster.

Craig

[RayR]

Got any pictures?
What stage are they at? Just spouted or have they developed new leaves?
"spindly stalks" I would interpret as they are not getting enough light or maybe too much Nitrogen, but it's difficult to comment without some more info. What media are you starting them in, what kind of fertilizer have you used or are planning to use? Are they under lights?

[TigersAU777]

Originally Posted by RayR

Got any pictures?
What stage are they at? Just spouted or have they developed new leaves?
"spindly stalks" I would interpret as they are not getting enough light or maybe too much Nitrogen, but it's difficult to comment without some more info. What media are you starting them in, what kind of fertilizer have you used or are planning to use? Are they under lights?

I can get pictures, but not right now as it is dark out. As for more info this will be lengthy and I apologize ahead of time, but here we go. None of them have just sprouted, they were all bought as plant. They are at 2 different stages. The 8 early girls are the young ones (about 4-6 inches tall when bought), and 3 of the other 4 started to bloom about a week after I got them, which means they are at least 50-60 days old if I had to guess. 4 of my 8 early girls having spindly stalks...and 2 of those are in the ground while the other 2 are in pots. The light and the nitrogen problems that you suggested both make sense, as they were only getting 6 to 6 1/2 hours of light until just recently. I finally found a place in my yard that gets them 9 hours which I think should help. I also (as posted in my OP) started out by giving them a high nitrogen fertilizer which I am just realizing I probably need to get away from. They are growing in a mixture of compost (from my aunt), peat moss, perlite, and Black Kow composted manure (about 60% compost, 20% peat moss, 15% black cow and 5% perlite.) The 3 types of fertilizer I was planning to use were Miracle Gro All purpose (24-8-16) Miracle gro Bloom Booster (15-30-15) and Organic Potassium Sulfate (0-0-50). I am thinking of either dropping the all purpose or just mixing a small amount with the bloom booster. The Potassium Sulfate I have applied only a small amount of but have heard that it is great for the ones that are blooming as it will promote healthier and larger fruits. Should I eliminate the all purpose completely? I know the Black Kow has nitrogen as well as the 15% in the bloom booster. I will get pictures when I get home from work tomorrow if you still need more info. BTW my plants are all in 2 or 3 gallon containers but I am fairly sure I should move them to 5 gallon containers from a little reading. Beefsteak tomatoes wont do well in a 3 gallon container will they? Thanks for helping a newbie!

[RayR]

Don't be attracted by the big NPK numbers, bigger is not better. All it means is if you use it, you have to use a lot less of it than a fert with smaller NPK numbers. It's also much easier to screw up and OD your plants to an early grave and cause all kinds of other havoc in your soil.
I don't use any synthetic fertilizers at all anymore, I've gone completely organic in my methods, so I wouldn't be the guy to advise you in what to use and how much for a container. Even when I did use synthetics, I used them very lightly.

[JamesL]

Might be too late to do this on your plants this year, but read this thread on cold treatment.
The word is that it will make them very stalky.
Ami has an additional link on the subject posted within this one.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=21448

[livinonfaith]

When you planted them, did you put them in really deep? I nip off the cotyledons (and occasionally even the lowest set of leaves) and plant deep enough that the lowest remaining leaves are only a few inches above the ground. That gives them a lot of space to form new roots.

I recently re-potted and staked my tall spindly tomatoes that had been languishing in my greenhouse all winter. (from seed last November) They ended up almost a foot shorter from burying so much of the stem.

Then I threw a big handful of tomato tone and a small handful of lime around them. That perked them up quite a bit and now they have taken off and all have flower clusters! (Some are still barely visible, but they are there) With the increased levels of light, they all look great now.

Yesterday I found five tiny tomatoes on my Kibit's Ukrainian! Yay!

[TigersAU777]

Originally Posted by livinonfaith

When you planted them, did you put them in really deep? I nip off the cotyledons (and occasionally even the lowest set of leaves) and plant deep enough that the lowest remaining leaves are only a few inches above the ground. That gives them a lot of space to form new roots.

I recently re-potted and staked my tall spindly tomatoes that had been languishing in my greenhouse all winter. (from seed last November) They ended up almost a foot shorter from burying so much of the stem.

Then I threw a big handful of tomato tone and a small handful of lime around them. That perked them up quite a bit and now they have taken off and all have flower clusters! (Some are still barely visible, but they are there) With the increased levels of light, they all look great now.

Yesterday I found five tiny tomatoes on my Kibit's Ukrainian! Yay!

I planted about 60-70% of the plant underground when I planted them. The stalks have gotten noticably thicker since they have been getting more sun. Any info on getting them a darker green or will the sunlight and cutting back on nitrogen cure this too?

[Tracydr]

I'm also a big believer in low numbers, organic. Fish emulsion, coffee grounds, kelp, composted manure will be your friend.
Don't try to make it too complicated. You can also add a dash of humic acid.

[brismith70]

Using epsom salts as a foliar spray or using an iron supplement will turn them a dark shade of green with a quickness. Then again, if your soil is not lacking in magnesium or iron, there's no need to add these things. You might just give them a little while. The plants may even out their color on their own.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by TigersAU777

I planted about 60-70% of the plant underground when I planted them. The stalks have gotten noticably thicker since they have been getting more sun. Any info on getting them a darker green or will the sunlight and cutting back on nitrogen cure this too?

Cutting out any fertilizer for now would be my strategy and let things take their course. I wouldn't be adding anything else till you see things looking better. You've got quite a bit of organic matter in your mix that will hold nutrients. Just make sure you are getting good drainage and the mix isn't waterlogged. If you overdid the fertilizer that should help flush out some of the excess fertilizer salts and Nitrogen. The stem getting thicker is a good sign.

[dice]

Are you fertilizing on, say, an "every 2 weeks" schedule? You could skip
one fertilizing to let rain and/or watering flush the soil, then you could
try switching to 1/4 strength from whatever it says on the fertilizer
package, regardless of which one you are using.

Since you have 8 plants all of the same cultivar (Early Girl), you have
a good test setup to find out what works in your garden with those
fertilizers. You can give one "no additional fertilizer beyond what they
have already had"; another "switch to the bloom food immediately
and just use that"; another "1/2 all-purpose and 1/2 bloom formula";
another "same schedule as originally but use 1/4 strength"; and one
do not do anything differently than what you have been doing.
(That still leaves 3 to try other things than what I have mentioned.)

You can take one of the others that you are not doing anything
differently on and mix up a tablespoon of epsom salt in a gallon of
warm water, then spray it on the foliage, early in the morning before
sunup or in the evening (you do not have to use the whole gallon on
one plant). If the result is satisfactory, you can sprinkle a tablespoon
of epsom salt under each plant and let rain wash it into the soil or
container mix.

The Miracle-Gro all purpose plus the potassium sulfate that you added
seems like a good ratio for tomatoes, without the bloom food. Perhaps
they simply do not need as much of the liquid fertilizer as they have
been getting. (My experience spraying tomato plants with blossom
boosters is that the flowers are simply more perfect looking. They do not
set any more fruit over the summer. My raspberries, on the other hand,
living on wood ashes, grass clippings, and whatever worms crawling
through their roots leave behind, get more flowers and produce more
berries when sprayed with blossom booster early in the season.)

[dice]

PS: Check out this thread:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22112