Wooden Cages - Am I Crazy?

[Chucker]

I built some new SWCs out of wood this year. They are basically just vertical 1x4s surrounding a storage tub. All the advantages of the leak-proof tub, the aesthetics of wood .

I've been trying to think of a caging system that is expandable as the plants grow, and originally was going to go with PVC cubes, very much like these: http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....71&postcount=5 , but as separate cubes that would zip-tie together as the plants grow taller.

But then I wasn't too excited about white PVC, and painting it seems like it will flake, so I started thinking about wood.

Here's a proto I built to see what it would look like outside of my mind, really similar to the pvc cages, except wood.



It's built out of 1x2s, and uses pocket screws and glue, so it's very strong. It weighs about 4 lbs. The idea would be to mount one to the top of the wood SWCs, and stack them as the plants grow, probably with drilled holes and strong zip ties.

So, good idea, or bad idea? Will a stack of three or four of these be ugly? Does it weigh too much, will it be top heavy in strong winds, or will the weight add to the stability of the container?

Thoughts?

[Master_Gardener]

Where do you keep them in the off season? Seems like they would take up a lot of space. It looks heavier than 4 lbs in the picture. I'm trying to imagine stacks and rows of these in use.

Russel

[ddsack]

I think they would look nice, decorative, not ugly at all - I don't like the white pvc look personally. Dark stain adds a nice touch. 1"x2"'s should be light enough to handle, do you think you will need to stack more than two? Not sure about the wind problem. As long as they are fastened down in some way, should be no more trouble than any other cage system. You may need to add temporary wires or strings around the bottom section to keep strays suckers growing upward instead of out, until they get tall enough to get over the top of the cage. But I like the wood look !!!

[tlintx]

Those are lovely. I can't speak to the weight issue, but if the plants get too tall, you could always top them and let them get wider instead.

[Chucker]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Master_Gardener, good point about the storage, hadn't really thought about it. I guess I've got an empty attic, so I should be fine as long as I don't build too many.

ddsack, the one I built is only 13" tall, so I think I'd need to stack three or four, which is where I started to think my plan might not be that good . Maybe if I built them taller or something.

tlintx, topping them might be a good idea. I usually don't like them to be much taller than I am, since they are on a deck. In the past I've just let them flop over the tops of their cages.

[simmran1]

So Chucker,

What fits inside? Will this be a wooden like tub or flex plastic Rubbermaid storage container?
Good looking so far, -R

[rockhound]

If you put them together with screws, you can take them apart in the fall and stack them anywhere, inside.

[Master_Gardener]

I vote for folding and unfolding as opposed to assembling and disassembling the cages. I'm not exactly sure how that would work with these cages after storing them a couple times. Then again, I'm lazy.

Do tomatoes even require cages? What do commercial growers use? I saw a video that showed a row of tomatoes with posts in the ground every so many feet. Looking down from the top, they used twine in a figure 8 pattern down a row of posts. There were several tomato plants between posts, not one post for each tomato plant.

[Got Worms?]

Good morning,
I'm just an old fart, but I can give you my thoughts, even though it may put me at risk of not having enough left for myself.

They will look nice on top of wood planters.

You will know, better than I, if they will hold up well in your area (my area = cool damp. your area = hot dry?) so... not much help there.

Due to many small flat surfaces, stacking over three sections high may be problematic if you are in an open area, and are subject to very windy conditions...wider, longer tubs would add weight to the base while spreading it out, increasing stability, and allow you to create taller (maybe 20") sections.

Screw pockets should be filled so as to not hold water (accelerates rot).

Could be labor intensive if you have a lot to make, although a labor of love is no labor at all.

Some varieties of tomatoes (Cherries etc.) can outgrow such a system quickly.

Storage was already addressed.

Pocket screws are expensive, and unnecessary on all the uprights except where they meet the top face. This would mean that only one side would be up, the bottom face would show countersunk screws if turned over...unless that would bother you.


As always, should you or any of your force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. Good luck, Chucker. This post will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck with your project, should you continue. And don't forget about pictures.

What?...What do you mean it's still there?... no smoke either?...doesn't anything ever work?...New technolagy...humph! ...grumble......grumble...

[tlintx]

Originally Posted by Master_Gardener

I vote for folding and unfolding as opposed to assembling and disassembling the cages. I'm not exactly sure how that would work with these cages after storing them a couple times. Then again, I'm lazy.

Do tomatoes even require cages? What do commercial growers use? I saw a video that showed a row of tomatoes with posts in the ground every so many feet. Looking down from the top, they used twine in a figure 8 pattern down a row of posts. There were several tomato plants between posts, not one post for each tomato plant.

That sounds like a Florida Weave. Awesome, scalable system. I found I had to prune to keep it manageable in our heat and humidity the year I used it.

You can also stake, one per plant. That's what I did this year but I was having horrible falling over issues. (The tomatoes, not me.) Further research shows you should probably prune down to one or two stems and top when it gets to the top of the stake, not let it grow like a crazy bush-jungle monster.

The ease of cages is attractive - literally, drop and go - but not the flimsiness or cost per. A lot of people use CRW cages or half cages. I have some in cages, but the advantage of not pruning is lost when... well, see "crazy bush-jungle monster".

Another method is a single cow panel, tied to fence posts, with the tomatoes woven through it.

I've also seen a system used in greenhouses that consists of very tall end posts with a guide wire strung between them, and strings dangling down, one per plant. Then the plant is wound around the string.

All comes down to cost, aesthetic, effectiveness. Pick two!

Chuck, your beautiful design has inspired me to build a trellis out of wood today. It won't be nearly as pretty but I'm excited to give it a try!

[Chucker]

Originally Posted by tlintx

Chuck, your beautiful design has inspired me to build a trellis out of wood today. It won't be nearly as pretty but I'm excited to give it a try!

Cool. Please post pictures if you are happy with the results, I'm always looking for ideas.

I think I've decided to use the 1x2 version as a base, and then stack some lighter versions made with 1x1s on top. That should keep more weight towards the bottom and prevent it from blowing over. Now if I can just find some 1x1 stock. I guess I can rip them on the table saw if I can't find them, but as I'm not entirely comfortable ripping thin strips on the table saw, I'd prefer to find some.

[Chucker]

Originally Posted by simmran1

So Chucker,

What fits inside? Will this be a wooden like tub or flex plastic Rubbermaid storage container?
Good looking so far, -R

Here's what they will be sitting upon:


Basically just a bunch of 1x4s surrounding a shallow container to hold the water.

Here's what I used for the container inside:
http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Rou.../ref=pd_ybh_11

The floor is made out of some galvanized hardware cloth, covered in nylon window screen. I used polyester ropes for the wicks.

As you can see, I mounted some pvc in the boxes because I was planning on pvc cages, but I will remove those and add something to mount the wood cages.

To the left, you can see the containers I made in 2009. I am going to retire these next year if my newer design works out, as they are very very heavy. Here's the post from my original boxes: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=11110

The new design is much lighter in weight, and can be build in like an hour or two, and only costs like $15 in wood, which is much better, I think

[Chucker]

Originally Posted by Got Worms?

Good morning,
I'm just an old fart, but I can give you my thoughts, even though it may put me at risk of not having enough left for myself.

They will look nice on top of wood planters.

You will know, better than I, if they will hold up well in your area (my area = cool damp. your area = hot dry?) so... not much help there.

Due to many small flat surfaces, stacking over three sections high may be problematic if you are in an open area, and are subject to very windy conditions...wider, longer tubs would add weight to the base while spreading it out, increasing stability, and allow you to create taller (maybe 20") sections.

Screw pockets should be filled so as to not hold water (accelerates rot).

Could be labor intensive if you have a lot to make, although a labor of love is no labor at all.

Some varieties of tomatoes (Cherries etc.) can outgrow such a system quickly.

Storage was already addressed.

Pocket screws are expensive, and unnecessary on all the uprights except where they meet the top face. This would mean that only one side would be up, the bottom face would show countersunk screws if turned over...unless that would bother you.


As always, should you or any of your force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. Good luck, Chucker. This post will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck with your project, should you continue. And don't forget about pictures.

What?...What do you mean it's still there?... no smoke either?...doesn't anything ever work?...New technolagy...humph! ...grumble......grumble...

Thanks for all of your thoughts, they are very good. Making them slightly taller, like the 20" you suggested is a great idea. Also, you are right about pocket screws on top and the countersunk screws on the bottom - great idea, hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

[dice]

This all seems like too much work to me. Imagine that SWC sitting
under a ladder. The ladder has horizontal strings that span all 4 sides
of the volume of space under it.

Goes up fast, can accomodate tall plants, and you fold it together
to store it at the end of the season.

[Barbee]

They look nice! What if you build one cage per plant and attach a post to each end box and run a board across the top to tie them with wire guides once they grow taller than the cages?