Preferred type of nitrogen in containers

Timomac · April 29, 2015

Hi all,

So, I've been searching for some clarity on the type of nitrogen that is best for containers. Is ammonia-based better than urea-based?

What I think I understand is that urea-based fertilizers, coated or otherwise, require biological intervention to break down into usable nitrogen - meaning bacterial urease is required. I've come across some opinion though, and possibly fact, that enough bacteria is present in potting mixes to perform this function making the urea-based fertilizer fine to use.

Ammonia-based nitrogen though is ready to eat. So, no intervention is not required to make the nitrogen root-ready. But, is that necessarily better?

Again, this is what I think I know. But I'm not confident I know what I think. I'm asking to see if this is accurate and if anyone has experience, old links to similar discussions etc.

Thanks,

Tim

Cole_Robbie · April 29, 2015

Calcium nitrate is popular for in-ground growing. I have used it on container plants. But I can't tell you how it compares to other N sources.

Ed of Somis · April 29, 2015

Be very careful with the thoughts of freelancing with specific nutrients. For beginner and intermediate growers...it is wise to use a well-balanced fertilizer that is NOT too high in nitrogen.

Sun City Linda · April 29, 2015

I made myself crazy a few years ago over micobes in containers. My brother has a book out on growing organically in 4 gallon containers. I have never had an interest in growing his crop, although apparently legal and up and coming. Anyway, He is up north where its cooler and I live in the inferno which is Southern CA inland. Micro colonies are certainly subject to die off in heat. So, for me, 100+ temps and containers = dead micro herds and nutrient deficient tomatoes.

Tomatoes are heavy feeders and I decided I wanted to know that they has usable ferts at all times.

Stvrob · April 29, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timomac

Hi all,

So, I've been searching for some clarity on the type of nitrogen that is best for containers. Is ammonia-based better than urea-based?

What I think I understand is that urea-based fertilizers, coated or otherwise, require biological intervention to break down into usable nitrogen - meaning bacterial urease is required. I've come across some opinion though, and possibly fact, that enough bacteria is present in potting mixes to perform this function making the urea-based fertilizer fine to use.

Ammonia-based nitrogen though is ready to eat. So, no intervention is not required to make the nitrogen root-ready. But, is that necessarily better?

Again, this is what I think I know. But I'm not confident I know what I think. I'm asking to see if this is accurate and if anyone has experience, old links to similar discussions etc.

Thanks,

Tim

I thought that ammonium based fertilizers also need biological activity to convert to Nitrate ion for the plants.

RayR · April 29, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun City Linda

I made myself crazy a few years ago over micobes in containers. My brother has a book out on growing organically in 4 gallon containers. I have never had an interest in growing his crop, although apparently legal and up and coming. Anyway, He is up north where its cooler and I live in the inferno which is Southern CA inland. Micro colonies are certainly subject to die off in heat. So, for me, 100+ temps and containers = dead micro herds and nutrient deficient tomatoes.

Tomatoes are heavy feeders and I decided I wanted to know that they has usable ferts at all times.

Bacteria can remain active at very high temperatures. even up to 140°F or a bit higher for some species. It takes a lot more heat than that to kill them. I hope your container soil isn't anywhere near that high.

Sun City Linda · April 29, 2015

Some days it feels like it's 140 hahaha. Maybe they just die off to spite me?

RayR · April 29, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stvrob

I thought that ammonium based fertilizers also need biological activity to convert to Nitrate ion for the plants.

Nitrates are not the only plant usable form of N. Plants can take in both forms or inorganic N and organic N too. (Amino Acids)

amideutch · April 30, 2015

Live soil ecologies have the buffer ability to convert NH4 (ammonium form) to NO3 (Nitrate form) in the nitrogen cycle. In soiless or hydroponic culture this is why nitrogen has to be given in the NO3 (Nitrate form) ie Calcium or potassium Nitrate which are readily available to the plant.

When growing in containers it is always best to inoculate your plants and substrate with myco's and beneficial bacteria on plant out. This well help establish the microbial herd and assure nutrient availability to the plant whether it be organic or inorganic.

Ami

BigVanVader · April 30, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Live soil ecologies have the buffer ability to convert NH4 (ammonium form) to NO3 (Nitrate form) in the nitrogen cycle. In soiless or hydroponic culture this is why nitrogen has to be given in the NO3 (Nitrate form) ie Calcium or potassium Nitrate which are readily available to the plant.

When growing in containers it is always best to inoculate your plants and substrate with myco's and beneficial bacteria on plant out. This well help establish the microbial herd and assure nutrient availability to the plant whether it be organic or inorganic.

Ami

Makes sense and timely as I am planning to grow a few container tomatoes this year. If compost/manure is added to the mix would you still need to inoculate it? Or would the microbes present multiply on there own? And if I did need to inoculate what is the recommended product?

Sun City Linda · April 30, 2015

I grow in Earthboxes and love Calcium Nitrate, I add it weekly!

My organic brother would be mortified......

amideutch · April 30, 2015

Quote:

If compost/manure is added to the mix would you still need to inoculate it? Or would the microbes present multiply on there own? And if I did need to inoculate what is the recommended product?

I use a preplant dip consisting of Mycogrow Soluable, Actinovate And BiotaMax. Dip the seedling pot in the dip, remove and let it drain back into the dip solution bucket, remove the seedling from the pot and plant. If your seedlings are in CowPots which I use or another brand of biodegradeable pot you just plant the pot after the dip.

I have no idea of the type or amount of microbes that are present in the substrate I'm planting in whether it be a container or growing bed, but I can rest assured that I know what I am adding to the mix.

Ami

amideutch · April 30, 2015

Quote:

I grow in Earthboxes and love Calcium Nitrate, I add it weekly! My organic brother would be mortified......

Nothing wrong with giving your Earthboxes a weekly snack.

Ami

RayR · April 30, 2015

Elaine Ingham discusses the different forms of nitrogen

drew51 · May 1, 2015

I concur with Ray, even if you killed them. most are spore forming and the spores will refill the container with bacteria once watered. Some bacteria can produce 1 million generations in 24 hours. I grew many a culture for work as a med tech.

April 29, 2015	#1
Timomac Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: SW Chicago suburbs Posts: 36	Preferred type of nitrogen in containers Hi all, So, I've been searching for some clarity on the type of nitrogen that is best for containers. Is ammonia-based better than urea-based? What I think I understand is that urea-based fertilizers, coated or otherwise, require biological intervention to break down into usable nitrogen - meaning bacterial urease is required. I've come across some opinion though, and possibly fact, that enough bacteria is present in potting mixes to perform this function making the urea-based fertilizer fine to use. Ammonia-based nitrogen though is ready to eat. So, no intervention is not required to make the nitrogen root-ready. But, is that necessarily better? Again, this is what I think I know. But I'm not confident I know what I think. I'm asking to see if this is accurate and if anyone has experience, old links to similar discussions etc. Thanks, Tim

April 30, 2015	#9
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Live soil ecologies have the buffer ability to convert NH4 (ammonium form) to NO3 (Nitrate form) in the nitrogen cycle. In soiless or hydroponic culture this is why nitrogen has to be given in the NO3 (Nitrate form) ie Calcium or potassium Nitrate which are readily available to the plant. When growing in containers it is always best to inoculate your plants and substrate with myco's and beneficial bacteria on plant out. This well help establish the microbial herd and assure nutrient availability to the plant whether it be organic or inorganic. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

April 29, 2015	#2
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Calcium nitrate is popular for in-ground growing. I have used it on container plants. But I can't tell you how it compares to other N sources.

April 29, 2015	#3
Ed of Somis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Somis, Ca Posts: 649	Be very careful with the thoughts of freelancing with specific nutrients. For beginner and intermediate growers...it is wise to use a well-balanced fertilizer that is NOT too high in nitrogen.

April 29, 2015	#4
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	I made myself crazy a few years ago over micobes in containers. My brother has a book out on growing organically in 4 gallon containers. I have never had an interest in growing his crop, although apparently legal and up and coming. Anyway, He is up north where its cooler and I live in the inferno which is Southern CA inland. Micro colonies are certainly subject to die off in heat. So, for me, 100+ temps and containers = dead micro herds and nutrient deficient tomatoes. Tomatoes are heavy feeders and I decided I wanted to know that they has usable ferts at all times.

April 30, 2015	#14
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Elaine Ingham discusses the different forms of nitrogen

May 1, 2015	#15
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I concur with Ray, even if you killed them. most are spore forming and the spores will refill the container with bacteria once watered. Some bacteria can produce 1 million generations in 24 hours. I grew many a culture for work as a med tech.